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Re: article on URIs, is this material that can be used by the SWEO IG?

From: Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@dfki.de>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:53:41 +0200
Message-ID: <46702F25.3040600@dfki.de>
To: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
CC: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, "Henry S. Thompson" <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, www-tag@w3.org

It was Tim Berners-Lee who said at the right time 11.06.2007 19:51 the 
following words:
>
>
> On 2007-06 -11, at 12:04, Pat Hayes wrote:
>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> John Cowan writes:
>>>
>>>>  Tim Berners-Lee scripsit:
>>>>
>>>>>  When the word Representation is used, I prefer to use it strictly 
>>>>> for
>>>>>  the relationship between an information resource such as a page 
>>>>> about
>>>>>  a person and the (metadata, bits) pair, and not for the relationship
>>>>>  between the person described and the (metadata, bits) pair.
>>>>
>>>>  Suit yourself, of course.
>>>>
>>>>  But I prefer to suppose that the (metadata, bits) pair you get when
>>>>  fetching http://www.heritage.org/images/shakespeare.jpg is not 
>>>> merely a
>>>>  representation of that particular JPEG, but also of Shakespeare 
>>>> himself,
>>>>  as the publisher of that particular resource must surely have 
>>>> intended --
>>>>  they would scarcely have bothered to publish it if they meant it 
>>>> to be
>>>>  just some JPEG rather than a picture of Shakespeare.
>>>
>>> Stop, you're both right [1].  The (metadata, bits) pair is a
>>> representation of the resource.  The resource is a depiction (a kind
>>> of representation) of Shakespeare.  To some extent, 'represents' is
>>> transitive
>>
>> Whaaa??? No, it is NOT transitive. A photograph of a book describing 
>> a statue of George V is not a representation of George V.
>>
>
> Agreed. But this seems to be a conversation about english words, not 
> the the web architecture.
> One could say, in *english*,  that the (bits, metadata) represent a 
> picture,  which represents a person, who represents the House of 
> Representatives which represents the people of the USA, which 
> represent the culmination of billions of years of evolution.  In each 
> case the word 'representation' is used in a different way.  That is a 
> distraction.  ("what do you mean by 'angel' and 'pin' anyway?")
>
>
>> The basic problem, seems to me, is that y'all (by which I mean the 
>> TAG mostly) are using words like "represent" far too loosely.
>
> The TAG uses (I hope)  tag:representation only as a relationship 
> between a tag:InformationResource and a tag:Representation, the latter 
> being the class of (bits, metadata) pairs.  It is not transitive.  (I 
> would say that its range and domain do not even overlap)

ok, two questions remain:
* whats the namspace tag: -> can we move this to RDF or RDFS namespaces 
(as it is crucial for the whole semweb architecture)
* the next thing would be to sum up our points and hand them over to CG 
[2] to have this really standardized.

once these two things are settled, I would love to see some examples and 
triples, and especially domain/range/rdfs:comment values for the properties.
And we could make use of the normal W3C process, a draft, comments, an 
editor, etc. For me, many arguments are lost somewhere in the e-mail limbo.

best
Leo

[2]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/


>
> When you see people on the www-tag list using words more loosely, they 
> may be trying to understand the architecture, or suggesting it be 
> modified, or talking about how  systems other than the semantic web 
> work, do not assume that the use of words is consistent with the 
> constrained use in the arch document, and later discussions of the 
> semantic web architecture, try to achieve.
>
> Tim
>
>
>


-- 
____________________________________________________
DI Leo Sauermann       http://www.dfki.de/~sauermann 

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Received on Wednesday, 13 June 2007 17:54:20 UTC

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