W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-tag@w3.org > June 2007

Re: article on URIs, is this material that can be used by the SWEO IG?

From: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:51:07 -0400
Message-Id: <0F03A253-64C4-4AFF-8AB8-3675DC0AA0B9@w3.org>
Cc: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson), Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, www-tag@w3.org
To: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>

On 2007-06 -11, at 12:04, Pat Hayes wrote:

>> Hash: SHA1
>> John Cowan writes:
>>>  Tim Berners-Lee scripsit:
>>>>  When the word Representation is used, I prefer to use it  
>>>> strictly for
>>>>  the relationship between an information resource such as a page  
>>>> about
>>>>  a person and the (metadata, bits) pair, and not for the  
>>>> relationship
>>>>  between the person described and the (metadata, bits) pair.
>>>  Suit yourself, of course.
>>>  But I prefer to suppose that the (metadata, bits) pair you get when
>>>  fetching http://www.heritage.org/images/shakespeare.jpg is not  
>>> merely a
>>>  representation of that particular JPEG, but also of Shakespeare  
>>> himself,
>>>  as the publisher of that particular resource must surely have  
>>> intended --
>>>  they would scarcely have bothered to publish it if they meant it  
>>> to be
>>>  just some JPEG rather than a picture of Shakespeare.
>> Stop, you're both right [1].  The (metadata, bits) pair is a
>> representation of the resource.  The resource is a depiction (a kind
>> of representation) of Shakespeare.  To some extent, 'represents' is
>> transitive
> Whaaa??? No, it is NOT transitive. A photograph of a book  
> describing a statue of George V is not a representation of George V.

Agreed. But this seems to be a conversation about english words, not  
the the web architecture.
One could say, in *english*,  that the (bits, metadata) represent a  
picture,  which represents a person, who represents the House of  
Representatives which represents the people of the USA, which  
represent the culmination of billions of years of evolution.  In each  
case the word 'representation' is used in a different way.  That is a  
distraction.  ("what do you mean by 'angel' and 'pin' anyway?")

> The basic problem, seems to me, is that y'all (by which I mean the  
> TAG mostly) are using words like "represent" far too loosely.

The TAG uses (I hope)  tag:representation only as a relationship  
between a tag:InformationResource and a tag:Representation, the  
latter being the class of (bits, metadata) pairs.  It is not  
transitive.  (I would say that its range and domain do not even overlap)

When you see people on the www-tag list using words more loosely,  
they may be trying to understand the architecture, or suggesting it  
be modified, or talking about how  systems other than the semantic  
web work, do not assume that the use of words is consistent with the  
constrained use in the arch document, and later discussions of the  
semantic web architecture, try to achieve.

Received on Monday, 11 June 2007 17:51:13 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 15:32:52 UTC