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Minutes for 19 July 2004

From: Norman Walsh <Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:13:32 -0400
To: www-tag@w3.org
Message-id: <87hdq2kmn7.fsf@nwalsh.com>
The following constitutes our best efforts at a meeting record for 19
July 2004.

   1. Roll call. Regrets: TBL, PC, SW, IJ (possible regrets)
   2. Accept the minutes of the 12 July teleconf?
   3. Accept this agenda?
   4. Next meeting: 26 July. Norm Walsh to Chair. Regrets: SW. Possible regrets from IJ

1.1 Meeting schedule

   1. Ottawa meeting update
         1. Action NW/PC 2004/06/14: Prepare ftf meeting agenda. See email from Paul.

* Zakim sees on the phone: Norm, Roy, DanC, Chris
 <DanC> Regrets: TBL, PC, SW, IJ

Chair: Norm
Scribe: Chris

Paul and Norm wil meet tomorrow to discuss the agenda of the meeting.
DC: Goals of meeting?
NW: figure out which lc comments are overtaken by events, whch need further changes to the doc

versioning on the agenda would be nice.

New issues?

DC: So, work towards second lc and work on other issues. Good.

1.3 TAG Charter

Pending further updates from Team/AB
no news

2.1 Action Item List

   1. Action NW 2004/07/12: Write XMLChunk-44 as a finding.
   2. Action TBL/RF 2004/05/13: Write up a summary position to close httpRange-14, text for document (need to reschedule httpRange-14 when TBL available-single issue telcon? guest?)
continued, TBL not present

RF: related news,  a new draft of 2396bis is available

2.5 Web Architecture Document Last Call
2.5.1 Last Call Issues


stickler7 : Section 3.4, para 2: URI ownership questions

(tag notes the links seem to be broken)

DC: doc has not changed much in this area. Not overtaken by events. 
NW: since we are doing a second LC, do we need to respond to this one?
CL: Yes
DC: Nice to do so, but not required. Argument was not persuasive.
NW: Propose this is not on critical path for last call.

stickler9 : Good practice note on URIs without fragids?

CL 3.3.1 says "One cannot carry out an HTTP POST operation using a URI that identifies a secondary resource."

NW: Overtaken by events. Document now adresses this.

hawke1 : Proposed good practice note on looking inside protocol interactions

NW: Overtaken by events

hawke2 : Section 2: Full agreement not required for communication

NW: Overtaken by events

hawke7 : 2.7.2. Assertion that Two URIs Identify the Same Resource

NW: We have more explicit text about URI overloading now.
DC: We tried, ask if its good enough. Adopted some suggested text.

NW: Overtaken by events

weitzner1 : Proposed summary format

DC: editorial

kopecky5 : 4.5.5 More info on qnames, fragids, ns docs

DC: spoke to kopecky, response was:
30 Mar 2004 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webarch-comments/2004JanMar/1071.html

RF: yes, we identified one useful mapping. Section 4.5.5 
"One particularly useful mapping in the case of flat namespaces is to combine the namespace URI, a hash ("#"), and the local name; see the section on XML namespaces for more examples." -- 4.5.5 (near http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#xml-formats)

NW: Overtaken by events

kopecky6 : 4.5.6 What's the conclusion?

CL: conclusion is someone else is fixing it
DC: Concluion is 'stay tuned'

NW: Overtaken by events

diwg1 : Add scenario(s) with dynamically generated URI

DC: We need to discuss this. No examples with a ? in the URI for example
CL: agreed. Prefer to ask them for more details

diwg3 : Suggest discussion of accessing different representations (transformed) of the same resource

NW:  should discuss this one also
CL: yes, this is a good comment

schema2 : [Section 2] Unwise confluence of identification and retrievability
DC: need to discuss with them, f2f or in telcon, soon
CL, NW: Yes
ACTION DC: ask Schema WG for a slot soon
NW: prefer Friday slot

schema3 : [Section 2.3] Clarity required on nature of "resource"

DC: talk with them about this too. Its like a point n gometry, abstract.
dd to 'still needs work' pile

schema5 : [3.3.1] Inconsistency with RFC2396bis about frag id meaning?

CL: (prattles on at leanght about fetching resources and moving between different handlers and not breaking relative URIs and stuff)
NW: sounds complicated, ok put on the 'needs work'

schema8 : [3.4.1] Authority and trust

NW: Overtaken by events

schema9 : [3.4.1] Are peer-to-peer interactions covered?

Its in the 5 July draft 3.7 future directions

NW: Overtaken by events

schema10 : [3.5] Breadth of "safe" interactions

DC respnded to them, asked if finding adressed thei comments, no response yet

Open, not in critical path for last call.

schema12 : [3.6.1] [3.6.1] Good practice: Available representation. Too preferential to dereferencable URIs

NW: thats why we said should not must
DC: Add to telcon pile

schema16 : [4.5.1] Section on when to use XML formats underdeveloped

CL: We used to have some of these points, but it was cut (text vs binary)
NW: I like these points
CL: Me too
RF: YTes
ACTION: Editor add these four points to existing ones

msm3 : WD-webarch-20031209, 1.2.1 para 1: Assigning identifiers without knowing about representations

DC: some is editorial, other parts are unclear
NW: This is now 5.1 in the latest draft
NW: editorial
RF: Ian lists a proposal that was adopted, can't follow the link though
DC: So Ian already did this

NW: OK so now, overtaken by events

msm4 : WD-webarch-20031209, 1.2.1, final bulleted list, final item.: Authoritative metadata and the principle of decentralization

CL: I agree with this comment, and argued about this in the past (config of parts of servers, shared servers, etc)
RF: current situation only works snce clients ignore media types
CL: some do, yes, others don't and get hit by this
DC: If CL wants to talk about it more, fine by me
CL: yes
NW: needs more discussion

msm5 : WD-webarch-20031209, 1.2.2 para 5: Extensibility is a not a property of languages in isolation

NW: needs more discussion

msm6 : WD-webarch-20031209, 1.2.2 para 5: Ignoring the unknown as a default action	no decision

NW: needs more discussion
msm7 : WD-webarch-20031209, 1.2.2 para 6: Ignoring elements and ignoring tags

NW: needs more discussion

msm8 : WD-webarch-20031209, Section 2, introductory paragraphs: The term 'resource' needs to be defined

NW: open but not critical path; related to schema comment on same topic
CL: Agree

msm9 : WD-webarch-20031209, Section 2 para 3: The vastness of URI space

RF: Already done?
NW: Yes, Ian added some new text

NW: Overtaken by events

msm10 : WD-webarch-20031209, Section 2: Assigning URIs to resources others will expect to refer to

CL: So http://realnumbers.example.org/cgi-bin/reals?<insert-real-here>
DC: No, sorry
RF: no practical difference between countably and unclountably infinite
NW: not critical path
RF: We no longer have that text in the document, or I can't find it
DC: changed significantly
NW: Overtaken by events

msm11 : WD-webarch-20031209, Section 2.2, bulleted list, first item: Delegation of authority in hierarchical URIs
NW: Overtaken by events

msm12 : WD-webarch-20031209, Section 3.3.1, para 1: Are there constraints on the interpretation of fragment identifiers?

(discussion on implementing and/or blogging this)
DC: Yes, and No.
NW: Not critical path

baker2 : More info on non-browser Web

DC: See 'future directions'
NW: Overtaken by events

baker4: 4.5.2: Preference for RDF linking over XLink linking
NW: Disagree with the comment
CL: Needs to say how its better
NW: Not closed, not critical path

parsia5: LC Comment, Section 2: Agreement on identifiers
NW: Overtaken by events

parsia6: LC Comment, Section 2: Identification mechanism of the Web
NW: text no longer occurs
NW: Overtaken by events

parsia7: LC Comment, Section 2: On requirement to assign a URI to a resource
NW: Overtaken by events

parsia9: LC Comment, Section 2: On resources being able to have zero URIs
NW: Overtaken by events

DC: Process issue, will this triage show up oin the auto issues list?
NW: Yes, I will do that

parsia10 : LC Comment, Section 2: On URI assignment
DC: prefer to talk about this
RF: Same as msm10
DC: Overtaken by events (but may follow up offline)

parsia11 : URI assignment v. use. Who are URI producers?
NW: Editorial?
RF: yes

parsia12 : Ambiguous use of URIs v. URI Ambiguity?
DC: OBE, we rewrote this text

parsia15 : Social implications of URI ownership.

CL: Consensus is process not social
RF: Para is fine to me, note 'however'
NW: Not critical path

parsia20: Drop definition of "on the Web"
NW: Rewritten, still no definition, used lots
CL: Huh?
DC: Phrase 'in the bathtub' is not defined either

parsia21: Drop sentence on successful communication


2.5.2 Reviews

See the 8 June 2004 Editor's Draft.

    * Action CL 2004/05/14 revised to:
    Done, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Jul/0012.html

Actions from 2004/06/14:

PC to review sections 1, 5, and 6 of 8 June draft.

CL to review section 4 of 8 June draft.

SW, NW to review entire 8 June draft. (SW Done[partial] PDF, HTML)

[Will add references to any other completed reviews submitted for discussion]
all continued, but on latest draft ot 8 June one.

Next telco will pick up where we left off in issues

RF: Draft 06 of rfc2396bis is now available from <http://gbiv.com/protocols/uri/rev-2002/issues.html> and will most likely go to IESG last call during the IETF meeting during the first week of August.

                                        Be seeing you,

Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM / XML Standards Architect / Sun Microsystems, Inc.
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Received on Monday, 13 September 2004 19:13:44 UTC

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