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Minutes, 13 January 2011 SVG WG telcon

From: Anthony Grasso <Anthony.Grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 21:49:51 +0000
To: W3C SVG Comments List <www-svg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <923A4276C1903646BE5299CA8462B0A01746BFC1@exm02-wvp.cisra.canon.com.au>
http://www.w3.org/2011/01/13-svg-minutes.html


---

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

13 Jan 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JanMar/0012.html


   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/01/13-svg-irc


Attendees

   Present
          heycam, Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, anthony

   Regrets
   Chair
          Cameron

   Scribe
          Anthony

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Telcom time
         2. [6]SVG 1.1 2nd Edition
         3. [7]Disposition of Comments
         4. [8]pointer-events on root, inline and referenced
         5. [9]pointer-events on root, inline and reference
         6. [10]Mapping Task Force
         7. [11]Next Face-to-face
         8. [12]SVG Mapping Taskforce
         9. [13]Test suite
     * [14]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 13 January 2011

   <ChrisL> First!

   <scribe> ScribeNick: Anthony

   <scribe> Scribe: Anthony

Telcom time

   CL: It is not very convenient because it runs into the WOFF call
   ... it doesn't overlap
   ... and I could manage it
   ... no objection though

   CM: It's fine for me as well

   ED: It's no problem for me

   AG: I'm ok with that

   DS: That would be fine

   CM: Replied to Pat's email but forgot to CC the list

   CL: Wait it would overlap with first half hour of WOFF

   CM: Might be bad for Anthony

   AG: I can turn up 30mins earlier

   CM: We'll tentatively set the time to be one day and a half hour
   earlier than it is currently

   CL: What about Tav?

   DS: Should be ok

   CM: Someone should mail the list

   DS: And we are still be having the bi-weekly FX call

   CM: I'll email the list

SVG 1.1 2nd Edition

   CL: I noticed that there was an action that was not on the wiki
   ... it was about the media type registration
   ... I've now closed it

   <heycam> (this is the media type registration)

   <heycam> ACTION-2816?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2816 -- Anthony Grasso to look into ISSUE-2339 and
   report back -- due 2010-07-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2816


     [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2816


   AG: Started looking into this

   <heycam> ACTION-2811?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2811 -- Erik Dahlström to determine new wording
   for ISSUE-2334 (filter sub-regions) -- due 2010-07-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2811


     [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2811


   <ed> ISSUE-2334?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2334 -- Last Call Comment: filter primitive
   subregion and feGaussianBlur, feTile and infinite filter input
   images -- raised

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2334


     [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2334


   ED: I did half of it
   ... Just before the call I checked in an updated version of the
   published directory
   ... the change I made was for the last half of the comment
   ... which was about defining what a tile was
   ... the first half has an agreement from ROC
   ... and I need to come up with some wording for that

   <heycam> ACTION-2911?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2911 -- Tavmjong Bah to finish the response to Dr
   Olaf regarding ISSUE-2338 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf
   -- due 2010-11-25 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2911


     [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2911


   <heycam> ACTION-2834?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2834 -- Doug Schepers to clarify section 16.5
   Processing order for user interface events relating to problems in
   ISSUE-2364 -- due 2010-09-10 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2834


     [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2834


   DS: I'm about half done with it
   ... I was struggling how to word that section
   ... I'm going to make a set of tests once I'm done with the wording

   CM: Can you make the tests last, as we may not be adding more tests

   DS: I don't expect them to be part of the released test suite
   ... just would like to make some tests

   <heycam> ACTION-2917?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2917 -- Patrick Dengler to review Issue 2384 and
   decide if the change to the test and the text is reasonable -- due
   2010-12-09 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2917


     [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2917


   CM: Not sure what the status of that is
   ... I think last telcon we had we reminded him to have a look at the
   text
   ... I'm not sure if he has replied back if it is expectable or not

   <heycam> ACTION-2910?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2910 -- Chris Lilley to cleanup changes appendix
   for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition -- due 2010-11-25 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2910


     [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2910


   CL: So what I did was I checked in the changes appendix
   ... with all the content removed
   ... then I started checking all the individual chapters
   ... by doing diffs
   ... I've saved the text file with the diffs
   ... part way done

   <ed> [22]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/changes.html


     [22] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/changes.html


   <heycam> ACTION-2921?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2921 -- Chris Lilley to bring the 1.2 changes for
   bidi and text anchor back to the 1.1 spec -- due 2010-12-16 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2921


     [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2921


   CL: Done that
   ... sent an email about it
   ... I ported across two sections
   ... and brought across two examples

   <ed> [24]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html


     [24] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html


   ED: Text chapter?

   CL: Yes

   <ed>
   [25]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#Relations

   hipWithBiDirectionality

     [25] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#RelationshipWithBiDirectionality


   CL: both examples render in Opera

   <ed>
   [26]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/images/text/rtl-tex

   t.svg (borken link)

     [26] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/images/text/rtl-text.svg


   ED: The published version doesn't seem to find the SVG files

   DS: How are we managing the publishing

   CL: Being run every now and again
   ... I run it every now and again, but depends on the change

   ED: Need to do a CVS add manually
   ... the link is broken probably because it wasn't added to publish

   <heycam>
   [27]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/images/text/rtl-text

   .svg

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/images/text/rtl-text.svg


   ED: this needs to be done manually

   <heycam>
   [28]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/images/text/rtl-comp

   lex.svg

     [28] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/images/text/rtl-complex.svg


   <ChrisL> [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/SVG1.1SE-LastCall/dump.html


     [29] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/SVG1.1SE-LastCall/dump.html


Disposition of Comments

   CL: I updated it just recently

   CM: Lets go through each unfinished one

   <ed>
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0009.html


     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0009.html


   ED: Robert says he's ok with this one

   CL: The next one seems to be 2339

   CM: That is Anthony's one we were talking about

   <heycam> [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346


     [31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346


   <heycam> [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2908


     [32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2908


   CM: Action is pending review
   ... all the comments on the issues say it's done

   CL: Ok, now sorted

   CM: So in the comments in tracker has it noted if responses have
   been sent
   ... I'm just wondering if we have done the action
   ... but not recorded it in the tool

   CL: I think some of ones is because of say a typo and there is no
   point in replying back and saying thanks for fixing the typo

pointer-events on root, inline and referenced

pointer-events on root, inline and reference

Mapping Task Force

   DS: If someone clicks on SVG and they click on the area outside of
   the circle
   ... what happens depending oh where the document lives
   ... so if it is standalone, or if it is part of html
   ... or reference the SVG in the html

   <ChrisL> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds

   DS: the question is does SVG have a background?
   ... does it pass through the SVG to the underlaying document

   CM: I can see how there would be a background there if you give it a
   background colour

   DS: I was wondering if someone could remind me what the decision was

   CM: Wondering if the pointer events on HTML come into play

   ED: It was part of the discussion at the last F2F

   DS: I guess the only answer we can have for the last call comment is
   it is undefined

   ISSUE-2364?

   <ed> ISSUE-2364?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2364 -- Last Call Comment: SVG 1.1 may be ambiguous
   about the root element acting as a proximal event target -- raised

   <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2364


     [33] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2364


   <trackbot> ISSUE-2364 -- Last Call Comment: SVG 1.1 may be ambiguous
   about the root element acting as a proximal event target -- raised

   <trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2364


     [34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2364


   CM: If this was discussed at length was there any resolution in the
   minutes?

   DS: I looked through the minutes and could not find a clear
   resolution

   <shepazu>
   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Aug/0028.html


     [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Aug/0028.html


   DS: This is the original email
   ... I think what we will say for SVG 1.1 that it is undefined
   ... and say that it is a larger issue that we will address in SVG 2

   CL: we don't want to add something in SVG 1.1 that will conflict
   with SVG 2

   DS: What do people want me to say on this matter?
   ... I guess we are treating it as a last call comment

   ED: Say that it will be dealt with in the integration specification
   ... I don't see how it is a pressing issue

   CM: If the comment is dealing with the non-integration case, we can
   just leave it

   RESOLUTION: We will define the pointer event testing behaviour for
   root elements in the Integration specification for SVG 2

   ED: We will probably have to work with people in CSS on this issue
   as well

   DS: Pointer events doesn't cover the case where you've tab-ed to it

   CM: So things which are focusable

   DS: Does pointer event effect things that gain focus?

   CM: That would be something separate

Next Face-to-face

   <heycam> [36]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/SVGAuckland2011/


     [36] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/SVGAuckland2011/


   CM: There is the registration form for everyone to fill out
   ... you'll see in the form there I've put some extra notes there
   ... which we haven't had in some previous face-to-faces
   ... this is deadline for requesting agenda topics
   ... and to prepare materials
   ... so preparing material may be putting some information up on a
   wiki
   ... I'd like to see particular things to discuss
   ... For specification that have not been written up have ideas or
   proposals on the wiki
   ... would be good
   ... TC39 - ECMA script group have a process like this
   ... Two important dates for the face-to-face
   ... is three weeks before to have a list of the agenda items
   ... and then two weeks before is to have material up on the wiki
   ... So, have a think about the topics you'd like to discuss and if
   you are a person behind a specification then I'd expect you to write
   up the material for the page

SVG Mapping Taskforce

   <shepazu> mapping task force:
   [37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Mapping

   [38]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/map/map-charter.html


     [37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Mapping

     [38] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/map/map-charter.html


   DS: This is a topic I spoke to Andreas about
   ... because we'd seen an interest in mapping build up again in SVG

   <ChrisL> Polymaps [39]http://polymaps.org/


     [39] http://polymaps.org/


   DS: Chris and I approached Andreas about the idea of an SVG Mapping
   taskforce
   ... It would be a subgroup of this group

   <ChrisL> SVG Map consortium
   [40]http://blog.svg-map.com/2007/03/about_establish.html


     [40] http://blog.svg-map.com/2007/03/about_establish.html


   DS: It would be finding use case and requirements
   ... and suggesting features for SVG 2
   ... I put together a sort of a wiki page and a charter
   ... it would not require advisory committee

   CL: Since we are rechartering, we should put that in
   ... so we can easily make a taskforce
   ... I dropped in a link of supporters

   DS: There are other potential companies
   ... that may be interested

   <ChrisL> [41]http://www.openstreetmap.org/


     [41] http://www.openstreetmap.org/


   DS: it could be applicable to other technologies
   ... I think there is a lot of potential interest
   ... It would probably be good for us to think about broader cases
   ... the question is do we want to start this taskforce?

   CM: I think bringing mapping people together for this is a good idea
   ... I think a few years ago we considered putting mapping modules on
   Tiny but without the mapping people
   ... it's a bit difficult
   ... Having Andreas involved is a good idea

   RESOLUTION: We will continue to explore the idea of a Mapping
   Taskforce

   <ChrisL> international cartographic association, comission on maps
   and the internet
   [42]http://maps.unomaha.edu/ica/Maps&Internet/Members/list.html


     [42] http://maps.unomaha.edu/ica/Maps&Internet/Members/list.html


Test suite

   CM: I added results for Fire Fox nightly build
   ... So we have Microsoft, Opera, Inkscape and Fire Fox

   CL: Who is doing Batik?

   CM: I was going to start looking at those today

   CL: I have been going through the ones of Abbra

   ED: Do we have someone doing Chrome or Safari?

   DS: I could do either

   CL: Which is the best webkit based implementation?

   CM: Going to be mostly the same, some differences in Java script
   engine
   ... In an email I listed a number of issues with tests
   ... there are a couple of changes that need to be made
   ... and there are a few where we are not going to change our
   implementation to pass the test
   ... or somethings we disagree with
   ... there is one test at least which doesn't have any
   implementations passing it at all
   ... before I started looking at Batik, I noted we had 80 tests that
   didn't pass
   ... just wondering what we do about them

   CL: Until we have Batik and Safari it's hard to say
   ... we need the full test results before we figure out what to do

   <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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Default Present: heycam, Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, anthony
Present: heycam Shepazu ChrisL ed anthony
Agenda: [46]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JanMa

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Found Date: 13 Jan 2011
Guessing minutes URL: [47]http://www.w3.org/2011/01/13-svg-minutes.html

People with action items:

     [46] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JanMar/0012.html

     [47] http://www.w3.org/2011/01/13-svg-minutes.html


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