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Minutes Mon 1 Mar, 2010, SVG WG telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:35:22 +0100
To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8zz89nlgeuyw5@localhost>
Minutes from the 1 Mar 2010 telcon:

    http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html

as text below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

01 Mar 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shepazu, ed, ChrisL, anthony, jwatt

    Regrets
    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Test Suite
          2. [5]Gradient wording
          3. [6]API Binding
          4. [7]FX Task Force telcon
          5. [8]Image Fit and Image Position
          6. [9]Pattern
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 01 March 2010

    <scribe> Scribe: anthony

Test Suite

    CL: I saw your email before the telcon
    ... good work
    ... for the cases where the fonts are missing

    <ed>
    [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/006
    3.html

      [11]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/0063.html

    CL: they should be in the old test suite

    ED: In the cases I've seen the conversion script probably ripped
    them out
    ... some of the tests have hard coded arial sections instead of
    using the SVG Font with fallback

    CL: I think in most cases that's an error except for where it's
    Arial Font Family

    ED: Where the SVG fonts are lost Anthony can you look at those to
    repair them

    AG: Yes

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to look at missing fonts in 1.1 SE test
    suite [recorded in
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2734 - Look at missing fonts in 1.1 SE
    test suite [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-03-08].

    ED: There are a number of empty tests
    ... not sure what the point of that is

    CL: It was to do with the old process of making tests
    ... originally a blank test was made as a place marker
    ... So deleting any empty ones should be fine

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Delete all the empty tests in the 1.1 SE
    tests suite [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2735 - Delete all the empty tests in the
    1.1 SE tests suite [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-03-08].

    ED: We need italic and sans faces for the fonts
    ... I never think we got around to getting those

    CL: I think I have an action for that
    ... I'll get around to doing that

    ED: We have two colour tests
    ... they are both complete except they still had the draft water
    mark

    CL: Ok, probably just remove the colour draft water mark

    ED: Just a bunch of tests need image patches

    CL: What don't when people do them they can email in response to
    that thread?

    ED: I can put that on the wiki if that helps
    ... my plan was to start from the bottom and work my way up the list
    ... hoping that someone can start at the top or the middle

    and work downwards

    CL: I select that many of them don't have the pass criteria
    specified in the right category?

    <ed>
    [14]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObject/str
    uct-dom-12-b.html

      [14]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObject/struct-dom-12-b.html

    CL: we should upgrade all the tests to have a defined pass criteria
    and description

    ED: That makes most sense
    ... this test here is ready to go. Just made an image patch for it.
    I was hoping we could accept this one

    CL: PNG is a grey rectangle?
    ... presumably the PNG should be a green rectangle?
    ... Is the rectangle suppose to change colour?

    ED: Both the text and the rectangle should change colour

    CL: The pass criteria should say that

    ED: So with that change can we approve the test?

    CL: Yes

    DG: Yes

    ED: There are a few that looked really small
    ... which is kind of strange

    <ed>
    [15]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObject/tex
    t-spacing-01-b.html

      [15]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObject/text-spacing-01-b.html

    ED: missing a view box or something

    CL: I know we had different sizes for Tiny, Basic and Full
    ... it says width=100% and height=100% and the viewBox is the
    standard one
    ... it's not that it's too small it just doesn't use the same area
    ... it's not dependent on font size. Just take out that closing <g>
    and the rest will be fixed

    ED: We should have an explanation at the top about the reason for
    the Water Mark

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Add text at the top of the test harness
    explaining in the Draft Water Mark [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2736 - Add text at the top of the test
    harness explaining in the Draft Water Mark [on Anthony Grasso - due
    2010-03-08].

Gradient wording

    [17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/pservers#Gradients

      [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/pservers#Gradients

    [18]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#clarificat
    ion_of_how_object_transforms_are_applied_to_gradients

      [18]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#clarification_of_how_object_transforms_are_applied_to_gradients

    CL: Resolution should say why we've gone one way
    ... wording about why an implementation method was chosen should be
    added
    ... could quote the email you sent about what authoring tools did

    ED: So it's only adding new wording

    AG: Correct, so only new wording

    ED: Looks fine to me

    CL: Wording looks fine to me

    AG: What about the diagrams are they ok?
    ... is the radial one too big?

    ED: They look fine to me
    ... do you have an SVG version of the PNG?

    AG: Yes

    CL: Would they make good tests?

    AG: Possibly

    ED: Would be nice to have a test in the test suite that checks these
    conditions

    CL: Seems reasonably easy to test
    ... and we have more than two implementations passing it

    <ChrisL>
    [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-repor
    t.html

      [19]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-report.html

    CL: we'd need to add it to the implementation report

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Create test cases that test the new
    wording added on gradients [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2737 - Create test cases that test the new
    wording added on gradients [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-03-08].

    <ed>
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/004
    6.html

      [21]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/0046.html

API Binding

    DS: This is something that only affects future specs
    ... because we don't plan on making the IDL inline do we?
    ... Just something to keep in mind

FX Task Force telcon

    UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: I think we haven't clearly defined when the telcon
    times are on
    ... I think CSS people are a bit confused
    ... should probably send and agenda with time out

    DS: So send something out for next Thursday
    ... why don't we try this Thursday?

    ED: Might be better to give people time to prepare

    DS: We could have it on Monday?

    CL: That would also be confusing

    DS: We could send an email in advance to let people know
    ... do we need a new tracker?

    CL: Would make things easier

    DS: I will try to get a tracker instance set up

    ED: Should we try for next Monday then?

    DS: Send an email to FX and bcc SVG and CSS and let them know the
    time

    ED: Another question is where the spec would be checked in

    DS: Well lets solve that next week

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Write up an agenda and send email to the
    public FX group [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2738 - Write up an agenda and send email
    to the public FX group [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-03-08].

Image Fit and Image Position

    ED: There was some discussion in the style group about Image Fit and
    Image Position
    ... those properties are suppose to override the preserve aspect
    ratio
    ... if you include an SVG using an object element and you don't
    specify anything at all
    ... then you'd get a stretched image

    <ed>
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0295.html

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0295.html

    ED: I think this would break backwards compatibility

    CL: I think an email from the chair saying this will break backwards
    compatibility would be good

    DS: Maybe this could be one of things we talk about next Monday

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Respond with Working Groups thoughts on
    image position [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2739 - Respond with Working Groups
    thoughts on image position [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-03-08].

    ED: What we want is to be able to use it for SVG as well right
    ... and not break backwards compatible

    CL: We should also point out that would also break HTML
    implementations

    <ed>
    [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0082.html

      [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0082.html

Pattern

    ED: Was taking a look at some code and came across this problem with
    patterns
    ... Not sure if SVG 11 was expecting lots of files to be referenced
    ... For a pattern in external file the coordinate system needs to be
    specified

    CL: We want people to use libraries of patterns
    ... the pattern designer doesn't know the coordinate system it's
    going to be used in
    ... if you were to take that rect from the first example and paste
    it in the second example with the #pattern
    ... the result should work the same if you migrate them to external
    file

    ED: If you put a width and height on the external SVG file
    ... you could argue that is not a view port

    CL: I agree it is good authoring advice to have a viewBox on the
    element
    ... but we need to define what happens if you don't
    ... and that needs to be sensible and reasonable

    ED: It only came up because we were doing some bug fixing

    CL: You should be able to produce the pattern
    ... and use that where ever you want

    ED: I think in my opinion it would be required to use absolute
    viewPort in the file
    ... problem is you can't access the percentages in the pattern
    ... which would be useful in some cases

    CL: We don't have percents on defined, only 'OnUse'

    DS: We could make patterns so they overlap in a certain way

    CL: That's a new feature

    ED: I think Dr Hoffmann was asking about this before too

    DS: Rather than change patterns in SVG 2.0
    ... we could do tiling
    ... so rather than deprecate them, recognise they are of limited use

    CL: Might do the same thing for tiling and map tiling

    DS: In mapping each tile is a different resource
    ... but for a pattern you could have the tiles point to a limited
    number of resources and have them tiled

    <shepazu> (discussion about SVG Tiling and Layering proposal from
    KDDI... hope they can rejoin)

    <shepazu> Issue: allow more advance tiling and pattens in SVG 2.0

    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2310 - Allow more advance tiling and
    pattens in SVG 2.0 ; please complete additional details at
    [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2310/edit .

      [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2310/edit

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to Add note to CSS 2 referencing pointing to
    CSS 2.1 [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2740 - Add note to CSS 2 referencing
    pointing to CSS 2.1 [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-03-08].

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Add text at the top of the test harness
    explaining in the Draft Water Mark [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Create test cases that test the new wording
    added on gradients [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to look at missing fonts in 1.1 SE test suite
    [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to Add note to CSS 2 referencing pointing to CSS
    2.1 [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Delete all the empty tests in the 1.1 SE tests
    suite [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Respond with Working Groups thoughts on image
    position [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Write up an agenda and send email to the
    public FX group [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [35]scribe.perl version 1.135
     ([36]CVS log)
     $Date: 2010/03/01 21:29:39 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [35] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [36] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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-- 
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
Received on Wednesday, 3 March 2010 15:30:10 GMT

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