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Minutes, 22 April 2010 SVG WG meweting

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:59:04 +0200
Message-ID: <93868945.20100422185904@w3.org>
To: www-svg <www-svg@w3.org>
Hello www-svg,

Minutes at

or as text below for bots

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Apr 2010


      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0031.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-irc


          [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, [Microsoft]




     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2
         2. [6]open 1.1 actions
         3. [7]f2f agenda
     * [8]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2010


      [9] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#DataTypeNumber


   <trackbot> ACTION-2730 -- Chris Lilley to fix the broken grammar for
   scientific notation in SVG 1.1 and 1.2T -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2730

     [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2730


     [11] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-svg-minutes.html#ActionSummary

   <ed> 9e-1

   scientific-number: := decimal-number [Ee] integer


     [12] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/types.html#DataTypeInteger

   <ed> 9e-.4

   <scribe> scribe: chris

   <scribe> scribenick: chrisl

   <scribe> ACTION: chris to fix the definition of number to allow
   scientific notation in attribute values [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2765 - Fix the definition of number to
   allow scientific notation in attribute values [on Chris Lilley - due

   implementations certainly allow .3 and i think they allow .3e3 as

   need to add a test for that syntax for stroke width or something

   <ed> "When used in an SVG attribute that is not also a presentation
   attribute, a <number> is defined differently, to allow numbers with
   large magnitudes to be specified more concisely:"

   <ed> should be changed to allow scientific notation in presentation

   that text is new, wrong, and easily fixed

Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2


     [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0025.html

   There was some discussion recently on Line caps drawing on zero
   length lines

   jeff schiller argued it was pointless, dr olaf said it was needed


   <trackbot> ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259

     [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259

   chris: hard to grep for url( in the tests

   erik: some errors in the markup, maybe from master to publish


     [16] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#MaskProperty

   should use func


     [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPathProperty


     [18] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/masking.html#ClipPathProperty

   <a href="types.html#DataTypeFuncIRI">&amp;ltfunc;iri&gt;</a>

   yes needs to be fixed in master

   erik: is it only properties that use funcIRI?

   <ed> [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/propidx.html
   (looks broken there too)

     [19] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/propidx.html

   chris: in 1.1 yes. 1.2t also uses it for navigation

   erik: need to check all of these from the property table. not
   autogenerated. need to edit idd files?
   ... will have a look at the scripts in case there is automation


   <trackbot> ISSUE-2305 -- Line caps drawing on zero length lines --

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2305

     [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2305


   <trackbot> ISSUE-2314 -- Negative values in polygon/polyline points
   -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314

     [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314

   erik: lets move that to 2.0

   doug: jeff would rather adress it now I think.

   (we think most implementations allow space to be omitted if the
   second argument is negative)



   | coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence



   | coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence


   coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate

   so it should be


   coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate | coordinate negativecoordinate

   (we do some browser testing on the fly with inconsistent results)

   patrick: opera and ie9 both read the negative as a separator
   ... firefox is not

   erik: safari has a green rect
   ... trying batik ....
   ... green rect as well

   chris: so all but firefox, in summary

   i think this is one we should do now

   doug: illustrator shows a green box too

   <patrickd> <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(100,100)"

   <patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />

   <patrickd> <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(200,200)"

   <patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />

   <patrickd> <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(300,300)"

   <patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />

   <patrickd> <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(400,400)"

   <patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />

   <shepazu> <svg xmlns="[22]http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0
   -100 100 100">

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2000/svg

   <shepazu> <polygon fill="red" points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />

   <shepazu> <polygon fill="green" points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />

   <shepazu> </svg>

   <scribe> ACTION: chris to edit path bnf for Negative values in
   polygon/polyline points [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2766 - Edit path bnf for Negative values
   in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].

   <scribe> ACTION: chris to test for path bnf for Negative values in
   polygon/polyline points [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2767 - Test for path bnf for Negative
   values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due


   <trackbot> ISSUE-2317 -- Give different result for feGaussianBlur
   stdDeviation=0 -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2317

     [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2317

   erik: made some changes to a local copy of svg filters, not
   completed yet, will split the equation for x and y
   ... as dr hoffman suggested

   chris: we try to avoid having zero be a singularity

   erik: ok will do in filters, then backport to 1.1 if it works ok and
   there is time


   <trackbot> ACTION-2189 -- Erik Dahlström to clarify that
   stdDeviation="25,0" for feGaussianBlur still means that the filter
   must be rendered -- due 2008-12-31 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2189

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2189

   erik: added some tests for this in filter module so can add those
   ... but no implementation handles it, they all give no output for

   chris: can opera change to add that?

   erik: already done, ha!


     [27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/test/svg/filters-gauss-201.svg


   <trackbot> ISSUE-2318 -- How should text-decorations be rendered wrt
   boundingbox units (gradients, filters)? -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2318

     [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2318

   erik: more of a clarification

   chris: a test with a small text string like "..." would show this
   with strikethrough and underline

   erik: or an svg font with a huge underline offset

   doug: better to do in 2.0 as we attack decorated bounding box then

   chris: yes

   erik: can test with getBbox

   doug: depends what it takes into account. eg not stroke width

   erik: its the glyphbox

   chris: it all depends on whether the strike and underline are
   considered part of the glyph or are considered extra graphics drawn
   along with the glyph

   erik: text decoration not implemented in firefox

   doug: text support in svg in firefox needs work
   ... jwatt aware of the issue

   chris: agree, move to 2.0

   erik: updating issue now

open 1.1 actions


   <trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for
   percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

     [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

   erik: mre exploratory, change how clippath percent units are
   resolved, more of a 2.0 thing


   moved to 2.0

   <ed> [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

     [30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

   erik: hmm the issue is already 2.0 but it shows in tracker as a 1.1
   action, odd

   chris (some tracker bugs if issues and actions are on different

   erik: want a deadline for completing these actions

   chris: one week

   erik: ok, one week. if not done, mark as 2.0

   patrick: if they don't get attention then we can move thwem and
   worry later if they still are relevant
   ... cvs access still not working


   <trackbot> ACTION-2590 -- Cameron McCormack to ensure javadocs get
   published when 1.1F2 is published -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2590

     [31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2590

   erik: not sure if that has been done

   doug: mail heycam and ask

   erik: will do

   action erik to mail heycam about ACTION-2590

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2768 - Mail heycam about ACTION-2590 [on
   Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].


   <trackbot> ACTION-2644 -- Chris Lilley to update the 1.1 DTD under
   /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE -- due 2009-08-12 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644

     [32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644

   chris: do we want a dtd? we are guiding people away from them
   ... we would need to update the DTD for all changes

   erik: ned to harvest already for default values

   chris: much clearer to say "if not specified" than to have a dtd

   <scribe> ACTION: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put
   lacuna wording in the spec for each one [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2769 - Check the DTD for defaulted values
   and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one [on Erik Dahlström -
   due 2010-04-29].

   chris: did we add or remove attributes or elements?

   erik: something about font or font face elements.
   ... not sure
   ... check the errata page

   chris; ok if we already made dtd changes from errata we need to
   republish that DTD

   <ed> [34]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml

     [34] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml


     [35] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_module_add_fontface

   ok so only one dtd change, easy to do

   erik: it was correct in the dtd not in the spec snippet
   ... so we can copy the old DTD in fact

   chris: if its identical no need for an update

   close ACTION-2644

   <trackbot> ACTION-2644 Update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when
   publishing 1.1SE closed


   <trackbot> ACTION-2743 -- Chris Lilley to make a harness version of
   the 1.1SE errata tests and link to imp report -- due 2010-03-22 --

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2743

     [36] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2743

   chris: if there are unapproved tests then i will agenda+ them for

   erik: is it better to change the fx taskforce telcon now or have the
   call and decisde on the call a new time?

   doug: better for me to have it the week after (www2101)
   ... better to change the time now ad postpone the call

   erik: ok

f2f agenda


     [37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Brussels%2C_Belgium_F2F#Agenda

   erik: day planning is usuall done in the first session so its not
   fixed yet

   patrick: wondering if we want to spend a full day on second edition

   erik: if its done before then not, otherwise its a way to get it

   patrick: what is this about a conformance report?

   <patrickd> These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports
   are intended not to test implementations

   (explains the difference between implementation testing and
   conformance certification)


     [38] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview

   These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are
   intended not to certify implementations as conforming, but rather
   the interoperable implementability of the specification itself.

   the wonders of wiki


     [39] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-report.html

   patrick: the 1.1 test suite is seen by the public as a conformance
   suite. and there are a lot of animation tetss, which we don't pass

   doug: this is a fundamental part of the process. we have to make
   implementation reports

   chris: all the browsers started with low scores. this is not

   doug: yes we do need more tests

   erik: we can do more testing of interactions

   doug: also svg+html tets are needed - good to test, but outside our
   current scope

   erik: want to see that in the charter for the new work in svg 2.0

   doug: very bad for morale to hold up 1.1se while the test suite gets

   patrick: happy to contribute more tests as long as they are reviewed

   doug: its time consuming work. 1.2T spent a year to do that

   erik: we need a new automated test harness really

   doug: can call this out more explicitly
   ... goot to have microsoft join the SVG IG to help with torture

   patrick: location for the extra two days are now confirmed


Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: chris to edit path bnf for Negative values in
   polygon/polyline points [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: chris to fix the definition of number to allow
   scientific notation in attribute values [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: chris to test for path bnf for Negative values in
   polygon/polyline points [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna
   wording in the spec for each one [recorded in

 Chris Lilley                    mailto:chris@w3.org
 Technical Director, Interaction Domain
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Thursday, 22 April 2010 16:59:47 GMT

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