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Re: [1.2T-LC] i18n comment 6: Direction and bidi-override attributes (ISSUE-2107)

From: Najib Tounsi <ntounsi@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:14:39 +0000
Message-ID: <4900A2EF.6070501@emi.ac.ma>
To: Ori Idan <ori@w3.org>
CC: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>, ishida@w3.org, www-svg@w3.org, public-i18n-core@w3.org
Ori Idan wrote:
> Following is a short HTML example of hebrew and english.
> The text says: 'hebrew with' english 'and again hebrew' where the text 
> in single quotes is written in hebrew.
> The HTML is in UTF-8 encoding.
>
> <html>
> <head>
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; example</title>

A typo here. You mean:

<meta  http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title>example</title>

Attached, the Arabic version of your example.

--
Najib Tounsi

> </head>
> <body>
> <div dir="rtl">
> עברית עם english ושוב עברית
> </div>
> <div dir="ltr">
> עברית עם english ושוב עברית
> </div>
> <div>
> עברית עם english ושוב עברית
> </div>
>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> -- 
> Ori Idan
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org 
> <mailto:schepers@w3.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hi, Richard, I18N-
>
>     ishida@w3.org <mailto:ishida@w3.org> wrote (on 10/10/08 9:43 PM):
>     > Comment from the i18n review of:
>     > http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-SVGMobile12-20080915/
>     >
>     > Comment 6 At http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/0810-svg-tiny/
>     > Editorial/substantive: S Tracked by: RI
>     >
>     > Location in reviewed document: 10.4
>     > [httphttp://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/text.html#TextElement
>     <http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/text.html#TextElement>]
>     >
>     > Comment: The direction and bidi-override attributes are needed to
>     > establish a context so that the bidi algorithm can work. My
>     > understanding is that this was omitted unintentionally and will be
>     > put back in. This comment is based on the latest editor's copy
>     of the
>     > document (ie. more recent than the version most of these comments
>     > apply to.)
>
>     That's correct.  We've added them back in.
>
>
>     > "In most cases, the bidirectional algorithm from [UNICODE] produces
>     > the desired result automatically, and overriding this algorithm
>     > properly is usually quite complex. Therefore, in most cases, authors
>     > are discouraged from assigning values to these properties."
>     >
>     > Actually, it's only in simple cases that you get the desired result
>     > automatically. For example, just put a period or other
>     punctuation at
>     > the end of any Arabic or Hebrew text, and it will appear in the
>     wrong
>     > place (at the right side) unless you have set the directional
>     > context, since the default is LTR. You could say that in *many*
>     cases
>     > the bidi algorithm produces the result automatically, in which case
>     > it is not necessary to use the markup, but you can't say that in
>     most
>     > cases authors are discouraged from using the attributes. Usually,
>     > however, it is not complex to use these properties, either. If
>     you're
>     > working in Arabic, you'll most likely need to set the direction to
>     > RTL most of the time.
>
>     How about this:
>     [[
>     In many cases, the bidirectional algorithm from [UNICODE] produces the
>     desired result automatically, and overriding this algorithm
>     properly is
>     usually quite complex. Therefore, in many cases, such as when using
>     Western scripts, authors are discouraged from assigning values to
>     these
>     properties.  When using right-to-left languages, it is recommended
>     that
>     these properties be set appropriately.
>     ]]
>
>
>     > Perhaps it would be helpful to provide an example of the most
>     > straightforward case, ie. unicode-bidi="embed" direction="rtl", that
>     > people can cut&paste.
>
>     That's a great idea.  We will add a Hebrew and/or Arabic example.
>
>
>     > What *would really* be helpful, would be the possibility of
>     declaring
>     > the direction at the top of the document, ie. in the svg
>     element, and
>     > allowing it to cascade from there to all text elements. In *that*
>     > case, you are much less likely to need to set the properties on each
>     > text element, when working in a right-to-left script. (And it will
>     > save a lot of typing for the poor Middle Eastern authors.)
>
>     This is indeed the case, because we inherit inheritance from CSS.  How
>     about we add an explanatory note for authors, explaining that this can
>     be done?
>
>     Regards-
>     -Doug Schepers
>     W3C Team Contact, SVG and WebApps WGs
>
>
>



Received on Thursday, 23 October 2008 16:14:56 GMT

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