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Re: SVG12: 10.4 grammar

From: Andrew Shellshear <Andrew.Shellshear@research.canon.com.au>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 11:12:49 +0200
Message-ID: <44605D11.2040802@research.canon.com.au>
To: www-svg@w3.org
CC: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>

* Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
>* Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
>>>>  From http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-SVGMobile12-20050413/text.html
>>>>section 10.4, "Whether the given element represents can be edited by the
>>>>user." This sentence seems incorrect or at least incomprehensible.
>>>>Please change the draft such that it uses correct and comprehensible
>>>>language.
>>>
>>>I changed this sentence to 'Represents whether the XML character data 
>>>within the text element can be edited by the user.' Was your comment 
>>>only referring to the grammar of the sentence?
>>
>>It seems http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005May/0120 this
>>got "fixed" twice... I think the new text is incorrect, for example, in
>><text>&#xF6;</text> there is no "character data" as defined in XML 1.0,
>>only markup. There is similar text in the draft like e.g.
>>
>>  The XML [XML10] character data within the 'text' element, along with
>>  relevant attributes and properties and character-to-glyph mapping
>>  tables within the font itself, define the glyphs to be rendered.
>>
>>From http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-SVGMobile12-20050413/changes.html 
>>
>>  'editable' is now allowed on text elements with children,
>>  but the children are flattened when editing occurs
>>
>>it also seems that the "editable" attribute's scope extends beyond
>>character information items, it should probably just refer to the
>>content of elements.
>>
>>I am not sure about this "can be edited by the user" either; W3C Amaya
>>allows to edit element content regardless of the editable attribute;
>>is Amaya non-compliant?
>
>I got a response to this, but it is not public. It would be helpful if
>the Working Group could publish that response; I note though that the
>response would not address my concern, the latest draft still uses the
>term "XML character data" in the same incorrect way.

Craig's response was accidentally sent to the private list - 
apologies for that.  It's included below.

In addition, we have changed all instances of "XML character data"
to "<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-content">XML content</a>".

Thank you for your thorough review.  Please let us know shortly if  this 
does not address your concerns.

Andrew.

---

Craig's email:

Hi Bjoern,

Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:

>* Craig Northway wrote:
>  
>
>>> From http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-SVGMobile12-20050413/text.html
>>>section 10.4, "Whether the given element represents can be edited by the
>>>user." This sentence seems incorrect or at least incomprehensible.
>>>Please change the draft such that it uses correct and comprehensible
>>>language.
>>>      
>>>
>>I changed this sentence to 'Represents whether the XML character data 
>>within the text element can be edited by the user.' Was your comment 
>>only referring to the grammar of the sentence?
>>    
>>
>
>It seems http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2005May/0120 this
>got "fixed" twice...
>
I found no evidence of the first fix when making this change.

I suggest the following replacement text for the editable attribute in 
the text and textArea element definitions:

This attribute indicates whether the text can be edited. See the definition of the editable attribute [link to text.html#editable-attribute].

which links to:


    If set to "false" the contents of the text
    <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/master/text.html#TextElement>
    or textArea
    <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/master/text.html#TextAreaElement>
    elements must be not editable in place through the user agent. If
    set to "true", the user agent must provide a way for the user to
    edit the content of the text
    <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/master/text.html#TextElement>
    or textArea
    <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/master/text.html#TextAreaElement>
    elements and all contained subelements which are not hidden (with
    visibility="hidden") or disabled (through the switch element or
    display="none"). The user agent must also, (if a clipboard is
    supported by the platform), provide a way to cut or copy the
    selected text from the element to the clipboard, and to paste text
    from the clipboard into the element . If no value is given for this
    attribute, the default value is "false".

    Animatable: Yes.

Further explanation of the functionality is given in the section containing the definition of the editable attribute.


> I think the new text is incorrect, for example, in
><text>&#xF6;</text> there is no "character data" as defined in XML 1.0,
>only markup. There is similar text in the draft like e.g.
>
>  The XML [XML10] character data within the 'text' element, along with
>  relevant attributes and properties and character-to-glyph mapping
>  tables within the font itself, define the glyphs to be rendered.
>  
>
XML11 defines character data: 
http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#dt-chardata. This 
definition which now clearly applies to SVG in the WG only specification 
would conisder the example you have given to contain character data.

>>From http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-SVGMobile12-20050413/changes.html 
>
>  'editable' is now allowed on text elements with children,
>  but the children are flattened when editing occurs
>
>it also seems that the "editable" attribute's scope extends beyond
>character information items, it should probably just refer to the
>content of elements.
>
>I am not sure about this "can be edited by the user" either; W3C Amaya
>allows to edit element content regardless of the editable attribute;
>is Amaya non-compliant?
>  
>
See the 'new' version of this attribute definition I have included above.

Regards,
Craig
Received on Tuesday, 9 May 2006 09:13:05 GMT

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