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Re: [SVGMobile12] SVGT12-207: <title> does not define what the title is

From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 18:46:26 -0700
Message-Id: <423BEBA7-F838-4E38-A0EB-32053ABFF6FF@apple.com>
Cc: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>, www-svg@w3.org
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>


On Apr 6, 2006, at 6:27 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:

>
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Chris Lilley wrote:
>>>
>>> The question is exactly what text string is the title. For  
>>> example, in
>>> these snippets (none of which are "in error"):
>>>
>>>    <svg:title> Hello World </svg:title>
>>>    <svg:title> Hello <svg:defs>World</svg:defs> </svg:title>
>>>    <svg:title> <html:p>Hello World</html:p> </svg:title>
>>>    <svg:title> Hello <html:noscript>World</html:noscript> </ 
>>> svg:title>
>>>
>>> ...what should the UA use as the text? I mean, please give the exact
>>> literal string that a conformant UA would put in the application's
>>> title bar, or in a tooltip, or wherever it puts the title.
>>>
>>> The same applies to <desc> and the description.
>>
>> [...]
>
> It would be helpful if the SVG working group could actually answer the
> issues I raise, instead of using the issues as suggestions for  
> topics on
> which to write exploratory essays.
>
> I am, as it should be obvious, intimately familiar with the  
> concepts you
> so kindly detailed in your reply. However, this discursion does not  
> in any
> way answer the question that I raised.
>
> Please answer the actual questions I raised. Specifically, in this
> instance I am looking for four strings, one for each of the  
> examples given
> in the text quoted above, along with the prose that has been placed  
> in the
> specification to address this.

It sounds like Chris's epistle does imply an answer for the strings  
you requested:

"If you are looking for a suitable way to display the first, or  
topmost, title element as a simple unstyled text string in window  
chrome, we suggest that using the flattened text content may prove  
suitable."

However, I think applying this guideline to the examples you  
suggested would not make sense -- in each case it's significantly  
different from how such markup would render in eaither an <svg:text>  
element or an <svg:foreignObject> element, in sometimes nonsensical  
ways. (Even the first would be different since whitespace wouldn't  
get collapsed). "flattened text content" would be an even sillier  
rule if the title contains things like <svg:handler> or <svg:switch>  
elements.

Nor is this guideline in any way based on the spec.

The spec does say:

"For reasons of accessibility, SVG User Agents should always make the  
content of the 'title' child element to the 'svg' element available  
to users (See the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 [UAAG]).  
The mechanism for doing so depends on the SVG User Agent (e.g., as a  
caption, spoken)."

So it's pretty poor form that it tells you nothing about what to  
actually make available. One could imagine dozens of interpretations.

Regards,
Maciej
Received on Friday, 7 April 2006 01:46:33 GMT

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