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Re: SVG1.2 and web applications

From: Fred P. <fprog26@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:51:12 -0400
To: www-svg@w3.org
Message-ID: <BAY2-F15VpMmOlbcrYP000008a6@hotmail.com>

Hi Bernhard,

If your writting a WYSIWYG text editor in SVG,
I'm developping one too and I'm not alone!
You might want to join skills and
develop some SVG/JS reusable component with us! =)

You might find those links useful:

All of them are GNU Library License (LPGL):
http://www.resource-solutions.de/svgeditor/
http://www.schemasoft.org/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/datenkueche
http://xmlrpc.kollhof.net/jsolait.xmlrpc/chat.svg
http://j2k.sourceforge.net/svg/august8/btn_def19.htm


I'm targetting for an LGPL license tought.
GPL is too restrictive for reusable SVG/JS source code.

Ask Jan, I switch him over from GPL to LGPL:   ;^)
============================================

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/33090
"
I was looking prefferably for a GNU Library License (LPGL)
instead of GNU Public License (GPL: inappropriate); especially,
when you offer a JavaScript Library! =P

Even glibc changed from GPL to LGPL license.

Since that way you force anyone using your JavaScript to have their
HTML, CSS, SWF, SVG, other JS, image, sounds or video files
to be GPL too! and that by GPL definitions. =(
"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/33148
"
> > Okay, but still if I want to use your JS and some copyrighted JS
> > together in a single site, I can't! and that makes no sense.
> > Neither I can mix proprietary copyrighted SVG image and your JS
> > (think like a Company Logo or similar)
> > or proprietary HTML/CSS and your JS
> > or proprietary Flash/SWF and your JS
> > or anything not GPL and your JS.
"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/33160
"
> >> The point with LGPL is that you ensure >> that your JS stays open 
>source
> >> and any "extension to it" must stay LGPL, while people can USE it
> >> with other scripts which are not enforceably LGPL. =P

I guess I will LGPL it.
"

> > Have you used other similar approaches such as XForms actions?
> > You seem to be saying that you'd the DSM or something
> > declarative in a non-mobile environment > (which is what it has thus far 
>been mostly targetted at),
> > can you describe how you think it'd make writing SVG apps > better in 
>general? We're very interested in feedback :)

>At the moment I'm working on a Browser based SVG Editor ( ASV6.0 )

>There are very nice things like keep the file-size for a complete
>Applicatoin below 30kByte. This is great and gives a new chance to make 
>someting like a Network-Computer.

Yeah, ASV3/6 freeze completely
if your SVG is bigger than 600 KB,
especially if its few MB uncompressed.
[ a compressed file which decompress over 600 KB won't load neither ]

See http://j2k.sourceforge.net/svg/


>postURL is excelent for Client-Server communication!
>(but ASV has problems with namespaces :-( )

>The most difficult things are at the moment:

>o editing text (single line, multi line)
>o selecting more than one element with  mouse (everything inside of a 
>rectangle)
>o draw BBox, convert Screen coordinates to CTM coordinates (ASV3.0 is 
>buggy)   ASV6.0 still has problems with nested SVG Elements.

Absolutely!

>o Scrollbars (CTM, Screen.x/y)

Native would be nice, but look for this guy LGPL code!
http://www.resource-solutions.de/svgeditor/

>-------------

>I also have problems with style and transform attributes:

>Example:
><rect x="10" y="10" width="20" height="20" transform="translate(4,4) rotate
>(10,3) matrix(3,8) transform(-4,7) matrix(3 4 2 6 4 8)"/>

>The transform attribute can have lots of values and it would be nice if
>there would be a function "normalizeTransform" that converts the transform
>attribute to something like <rect x="xxx" y="xx" width="xxx" height="xxx" 
>transform="matrix(a b c d 0 0)"/>
>(the matrix has zero for transX transY)

>There is the same problem with style attributes:
><text fill="red" font-size="10" style="fill:blue; font-size:20" ... />

>Same with colors:
>fill="rgb(12,12,12)" or fill="#ffeedd"

You might want to try something like a CSS class or the following:
style='fill:url(#red)'

  <defs>
    <pattern id='red' patternUnits='userSpaceOnUse'
             x='0' y='0' width='1' height='1'
             viewBox="0 0 1 1" >
      <rect style='fill:#ffeedd' width='1' height='1' x='0' y='0'/>
    </pattern>
  </defs>

  it's overkill but it works fine.



>--------
>It is easy to write functions that convert all this attributes to a
>"normalized" form - but it is boring.
>I also don't know the prefered way to use attribute.

>It would be nice to have something like "canonical" SVG.

>-------------------

>XForms is a replacement for HTML Forms but I don't see
>how to make it usefull in SVG.
>For me postURL gives me all I need for Client-Server communication -
>except File-upload functionality for (binary) files.

XForm can be useful if we can customize them to look like we want.

>--------------------

>A very important but difficult thing is copy/paste with clipboard. Without 
>clipboard SVG Applications are not "real" applications.

Yes! Absolutely.

>---------

>I'm thinking about how to make "undo" for DOM commands.
>Maybe there is a simple solution, but at the moment I don't know how to do 
>that.

some <![CDATA[ .... ]]> and JS or database backend with XML-RPC ?

>-----
>There is also a problem when I load a SVG Document to an other SVG 
>Document.
>How can I keep the ID's unique?

Not sure what you're talking about. =)

Let me know, if you need help or vice-versa,
you should subscribe to yahoo groups: svg-developers =)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/


Sincerely yours,
Fred.

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Received on Monday, 18 August 2003 12:51:30 GMT

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