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Re: Identical rendering? [was Re: SVG 1.2 General feedback]

From: Vadim Plessky <plessky@cnt.ru>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:46:48 +0300
To: www-svg@w3.org
Message-Id: <200211220046.48140.plessky@cnt.ru>

Hello Vincent,

On Thursday 21 November 2002 2:33 pm, Vincent Hardy wrote:
|  Hello Vadim,
|  > |  VP> But SVG can be used as *final distribution* format for documents,
|  > |  VP> no?  I SVG can replace closed PDF at some moment.  What we need
|  > |  VP> for this is good, fast SVG renderer, and necessary support for
|  > |  VP> printers (drivers).  I can think CUPS can be a good start for
|  > |  VP> this.  We just need replace PS with SVG, and GhostScript with
|  > | good VP> SVG renderer.
|  > |
|  > |      Well, SVG can be used in a large number of places and this is
|  > |  certainly one of them.  You should take a look at Batik it is
|  > |  currently the most conformant SVG renderer available (unfortunately
|  > |  for you it does not do font hinting at all).  But it is certainly
|  > |  capable of taking the place of a tool like GhostScript (who's font
|  > |  rendering is generally much worse than Batik's - IMHO).
|  >
|  > I doubt that Batik is capable to take a place of GhostScript.
|  > It requires Java, it's slow, and it's huge.
|  >
|  > Java will die in 6-12 months, unless Sun finally change its mind and
|  > make Java Open-Source.**  So, it's not good idea IMO to use product
|  > based on close-to-death technology.
|  >
|  > ** C# will eat Java's lunch, as Sun is a way behind Microsoft with
|  > marketing experience, and Java has no advanatges over C#.
|  People on this list usually have constructive discussions. Derogatory
|  statements do not help making progress and heated comments on Java are
|  not helping the SVG 1.2 specification.

I believe our discussion *is* constructive.
I expressed my opinion that SVG can be used as an replacement for PS/PDF.
And several people agreed with me.
Note that it was not _me_ who mentioned Batik, it was another person.
And I expressed my opinion on Batik (see above). What's wrong with that?

So far, I haven't seen any "heated comments" on Java.
I hope you do not take comments on Java _personally_, just because you 
employed by Sun?..

Wether you agree with me or not, but I am free to express my opinion.
And my opinion about SVG is that *SVG success depends on Open-Source 

As about SVG _1.2_ - I will study specs later and express my opinion about it, 
when it's ready.

|  Besides, of course, I disagree with your analysis on Java which I think
|  has a long and healthy life ahead of it. Its powerful APIs and large
|  number of open-source projects built on it are a few of the reasons why
|  I think it will continue to be sucessful. 

Project can't be open-source when it depends on closed-source (like JRE).
It can be that minor (open-source-like) projects are built on Java, or use it 
for some particular thing. But so far largest Open-Source projects (Linux 
Kernel, KDE, GTK/GNOME) *do not use* Java.

| But this list is the wrong
|  place for such a debate, so thanks for moving the discussion on Java to
|  some other forum where it is appropriate.


|  Regards,
|  Vincent.

Best Regards,

Vadim Plessky
SVG Icons
Received on Friday, 22 November 2002 10:00:54 UTC

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