W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > February 2018

Re: text-decoration-skip-ink auto should continue past behavior - 30+ years of underline behavior changed by latest CSS draft

From: Myles C. Maxfield <mmaxfield@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:27:27 -0800
Cc: www-style@w3.org
Message-id: <C4620DF6-65D4-4CCE-85D8-55628A688279@apple.com>
To: OwN-3m-All <own3mall@gmail.com>


> On Feb 21, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Myles C. Maxfield <mmaxfield@apple.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 21, 2018, at 7:33 AM, OwN-3m-All <own3mall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I initially thought this was a problem with Chrome (since they seem to
>> be one of the early adopters - bug report here:
>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=813256#c2), but
>> now that I've seen the actual spec, I'm shocked that the auto value
>> for the text-decoration-skip-ink property is to change the way
>> underlined text has worked since the beginning of computers!
> 
> Yep. This change is intentional.
> 
>> 
>> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-4/#text-decoration-skip-ink-property
>> 
>> Underlined text should always have the line over all characters.
> 
> Nope. This is how computers have historically rendered text. However, historically, most high-typographic-quality examples which include underlines make the underlines skip over the descenders.

Or, stated differently, underlines cross descenders in existing software because it was convenient for software authors writing code. However, we’ve done research in underlines through the ages (way before computers were invented) and the best typographical samples always use skipping underlines. This is a situation where changing behavior on the Web doesn’t break content and automatically improves typography for everyone. (And it has an opt-out mechanism if for some reason you don’t like good typography.)

> 
> This is a progression, and improves typography on the Web.
> 
>> Hanging characters should not be exempt.  If you want to change the
>> default behavior of underlined text, don't force that behavior on us.
> 
> It isn’t forced on you.
> 
> :root {
> text-decoration-skip-ink: none;
> }
> 
>> "auto" should be "UA must draw contiguous lines without interruptions,
>> even when they cross over a glyph.".  Any other behavior is
>> NON-STANDARD.
> 
> The CSS specification defines what is standard and non-standard, and the CSS specification states that “auto” is the initial value. So, indeed, the behavior you propose is non-standard.
> 
>> 
>> Could someone please re-review the draft.  It's crazy to think that
>> hyperlinks and any text with text-decoration: underline will soon be
>> showing up differently for no reason whatsoever!
> 
> See above. Not crazy; it’s a progression.
> 
>> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 21 February 2018 17:27:52 UTC

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