W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2011

RE: css3-fonts: should not dictate usage policy with respect to origin

From: Sylvain Galineau <sylvaing@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:46:05 +0000
To: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
CC: John Hudson <tiro@tiro.com>, "Levantovsky, Vladimir" <Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotypeimaging.com>, "liam@w3.org" <liam@w3.org>, StyleBeyondthePunchedCard <www-style@w3.org>, "public-webfonts-wg@w3.org" <public-webfonts-wg@w3.org>, "www-font@w3.org" <www-font@w3.org>, Martin J. <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <3C4041FF83E1E04A986B6DC50F0178290BB418@TK5EX14MBXC297.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Well, if we have fallen into ad-hominem – and your opening paragraph seems to indicate we have indeed - then I am confident the sum of all your positive and constructive contributions to this WG will prove you to be the innocent victim of my unfairness.

“Unless I observe a change in position” In other words, unless the group does what you want you will take action to block progress of their work. Given that you’ve made a single proposal and essentially ignored all substantive questions or issues that were raised, should you be surprised by the lack of progress ? You aim to force a group to comply with your demand for no other reason that you’ll formally object if it doesn’t. I give you credit for clarity, at least: you don’t waste any time pretending to care about anything or anyone else. It’s certainly one way to participate in the standard process but please, let’s at least have the decency to not act bothered when it causes some friction, as if formal objections never caused any heated exchanges. (Although the heated disagreements usually lead to the FO, not the other way around, so maybe this constitutes innovation).

As a new draft would not force any existing implementations to support same-origin restrictions, your objection remains without basis. Same-origin support would only be required for a new implementation that also wants to conform with the latest draft.…until the next draft makes it non-conformant in some other way. Since working draft implementations are experimental, that is expected and normal. (At least for active CSSWG members and implementors).

Last, since css3-fonts is under the CSSWG charter may I suggest your register your objection through the CSSWG mailing list at www-style@w3.org<mailto:www-style@w3.org> ? Not everyone in the latter follows the Fonts WG mailing list. Thank you.
From: public-webfonts-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-webfonts-wg-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Adams
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:18 PM
To: Sylvain Galineau
Cc: John Hudson; Levantovsky, Vladimir; liam@w3.org; StyleBeyondthePunchedCard; public-webfonts-wg@w3.org; www-font@w3.org; Martin J.
Subject: Re: css3-fonts: should not dictate usage policy with respect to origin

Sylvain,

This thread appears to be spiraling into ad hominem. It is clear that you believe yourself the self-appointed spokesman for the entire web in these matters, that you believe you can read my mind and announce my intentions, and that you must have the last word no matter what. It is also clear that you are not interested in considering any form of compromise to accommodate our position.

It would be pointless to respond further, so, unless I observe a change in position, I will maintain Samsung's objection to mandating same-orign requirements in css3-fonts and/or woff for UAs that do not otherwise implement same origin access controls.

Glenn

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Sylvain Galineau <sylvaing@microsoft.com<mailto:sylvaing@microsoft.com>> wrote:

My bad for taking a point you made earlier and extrapolating from that css3-fonts reference (“I would note, however, that as presently defined, HTML5 does require same-origin on web font resource access along with other resource types.” in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jun/0668.html). But since HTML5 does *not* define any origin policy for fonts and you argue that is where it should be interoperably defined, how is that going to happen without raising the issue with the HTML WG ? As the spec is heading for Last Call it would seem important to raise the issue soon. (Although a formal objection would not indeed seem necessary if HTML5 does not require this, despite your original claim).

Given that your sole contribution to this mailing list and WG has been to show up to throw a sudden formal objection by making a series of incoherent and self-contradictory arguments – as if to see which one could stick, really - given that you are actively opposed to the consensus and goals of this WG, given that you haven’t even once bothered to show interest about the impact of your approach on the WG’s work, on other members, on the web, web authors or users, you have precious few grounds to expect the position you represent to be welcomed as a positive and meaningful contribution. In addition, given that you have persistently evaded or ignored others on those issues they care about, given that I have no concrete reason to believe as of yet that your goal is to contribute in a manner that is meaningful and positive for the work of the group, I have been as civil as I feel justified under the circumstances. Were you expecting a thank you note ?
From: Glenn Adams [mailto:glenn@skynav.com<mailto:glenn@skynav.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:26 AM
To: Sylvain Galineau
Cc: John Hudson; Levantovsky, Vladimir; liam@w3.org<mailto:liam@w3.org>; StyleBeyondthePunchedCard; public-webfonts-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-webfonts-wg@w3.org>; www-font@w3.org<mailto:www-font@w3.org>; Martin J.
Subject: Re: css3-fonts: should not dictate usage policy with respect to origin


On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Sylvain Galineau <sylvaing@microsoft.com<mailto:sylvaing@microsoft.com>> wrote:
In any case, I assume you will file a formal objection with all three WGs concerned. As HTML5 currently depends on css3-fonts to define this behavior and you clearly believe that to be incorrect, you will also object and demand that they define this behavior as part of HTML5, right ?

Again, you are wrong. HTML5 only refers to css3-fonts once, in the following:

For fonts

The origin<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#origin> of a downloadable Web font is equal to the origin<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#origin> of the absolute URL<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#absolute-url> used to obtain the font (after any redirects). [CSSFONTS]<http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#refsCSSFONTS>
This says nothing about using css3-fonts to define same origin behavior.

You know Slyvain, I don't know you, but I have not impugned your knowledge or reasonableness in this thread. On the other hand, every contribution of yours to this thread has been expressed to one degree or another in an ironic and frankly, a contemptuous tone. You should try being civil for a change.

G.






Received on Tuesday, 28 June 2011 23:46:44 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 26 March 2013 17:20:41 GMT