W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > January 2011

Re: align property

From: Bruno Podvezanec <bruno5544@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 00:00:51 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTikz2L=e4Y5nD4hfy7Q8vT__ybc2tZc=6Xj197AP@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Cc: Mark Kenny <beingmrkenny@gmail.com>, www-style@w3.org
2011/1/26 Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>:
>
> <center> was a mistake, the same as the 'align' attribute, the <font>
> element, and other presentation parts of HTML.  It was rightfully
> removed.  The fact that CSS has gone this long without a good ability
> to center things is a tragedy, but that's in the past.

You can't say that now, there are millions of websites using those
tags and attributes, no matter what we say now. And when you see use
of it in that amount it means people accepted it, people like it, it
simple and effective.
Example, I remember year ago one of my clients wanted to change
something on the website and doesn't have $ or don't want to pay for
small changes, so instead of my CSS code for centering, he found out
in Dreamweaver <center> tag, and he said no thanks(for your solution)
I'll use this simple one, and it works in all browsers old and new
ones.

>
> There are significant problems with trying to mix this sort of
> alignment with block layout, unfortunately.  It really isn't as simple
> as you think it is, because of several features, like floats, that
> make block layout good for layout out documents, but not for laying
> out applications or complex web pages.
>

Then in property explanation forbid use of such features with other
features. I would rather have simplified 'align' properties to what
I've mentioned and forbid something to mix into it, if it will change
look&feel of align property.
I didn't have enough time now to think about all aspects of other
properties, but things can be solved.
We know that all CSS properties can't coexist with any other CSS
properties you want, there are obviously "rules and regulations" - but
the point is this can be achieved.
That can mean float and align can't coexist within the same element.
Those can be one of those rules and regulations.
Or make 'float' property parent and 'align' as child, if you float box
to the left, and box size is e.g. 400px wide, now inside that box we
have space and we can use align property to align anything inside,
will that be another 2-3 boxes (box in a box) or, images, or text.. it
will be aligned within main parent box aka float property.
OR/IF 'align' is used outside float then it would work as I've
explained in last message.
Of course some more thinking is needed, but I hope I gave you some
direction to work on.

No matter what you do now, in 10-15 years from now, somebody will say
look at that CSS3 standard, how they didn't come up with better
solutions... same thing we are saying now for old HTML, but some
people are still using it.
I used Netscape Navigator, I'm from old school internet users mid 90's
:) Telnet and reading USENET through UNIX system.
When say all this with all my experience over the years I do know what
I'm talking about. And there surely is solution for ideas I've
presented here.
As for me if I were you, I would push for 'align' property to come to
life. It will be most usable property in CSS, same as <center> was in
its time and later 'align' attribute within HTML tags.

CSS2 isn't perfect, CSS3 won't be perfect either, but we are moving
forward using solutions we think are the best at this point.

Bruno
Received on Wednesday, 26 January 2011 23:01:51 GMT

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