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Re: [css3-font] Extension of font-stretch property

From: Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 12:15:25 -0800
Message-Id: <EDC45D31-141A-4C88-99C5-EF36A4CFD026@gmail.com>
Cc: MasaFuji <masa@fuji.email.ne.jp>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
To: Thomas Phinney <tphinney@cal.berkeley.edu>
"Them" meaning condensed fonts, whether synthesized or separate faces.   

I don't want my design turned into junk either. But that is what would happen if I am using condensing to achieve a certain typographic color or distinction from another non-condensed block of text, and the UA decides not to even try to give it to me, just because the user doesn't have the exact right font. 

I have come to expect users to not have the right font. I am more concerned about the macro differences in the page than about the micro differences of the font that most won't notice. 


Brad Kemper

On Jan 15, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Thomas Phinney <tphinney@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:

> "I understand that distorted fonts are not ideal, but I think that should. Just be an expected caveat of using them."
> 
> What is "them"? We're not starting from a point of using distorted fonts, we're starting with talking condensed and extended fonts: these could *either* be typographically good (real) or cruddy (distorted). I don't accept the argument that user agents should be free to turn my design into junk.
> 
> At the very least there must be some way to ask the user agent to only return real fonts, not distorted ones. One good use case for this is that the user does have a condensed face, but because it doesn't exactly match the *degree* of condensed-ness being requested, they get a distorted font instead.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> T
> 
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand that distorted fonts are not ideal, but I think that should. Just be an expected caveat of using them. As a designer, if I ask for a condensed font, then I expect it to be narrower than a non-condensed version, even if that means synthesizing when condensed versions of the typeface are not available (which I also expect to be far more common on the Web).  
> 
> 
> Brad Kemper
> 
> On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Thomas Phinney <tphinney@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Speaking as a typographer here:
>> 
>> My concern is that distorted fonts are considered typographically "bad form" and the distorted shapes look lousy. The default should be to NOT do artificially scaled expanding/condensing, with some option to turn that behavior on.
>> 
>> T
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 6:30 PM, MasaFuji <masa@fuji.email.ne.jp> wrote:
>> I'd like to expand the values of font-stretch property as like as font-size property.
>> 
>> Name:            font-stretch
>> Value:           <absolute-stretch> | <relative-stretch> | <percentage> | inherit
>> Initial:         normal
>> Applies to:      all elements
>> Inherited:       yes
>> Percentages:     refer to normal element's ratio
>> Media:           visual
>> Computed Value;  as specified
>> 
>> Basically, this property indicates the desired font-stretch of glyphs from the font, in other words, the 'font-stretch' property selects a normal, condensed, or expanded face from a font family. It will be happy to Latin font families which have a various type of condensed or expanded font. When a font does not exist for a given width and is scalable in size, it will be useful the font-stretch gives a ratio of scaling in the inline progression direction. For scalable fonts, the font-stretch is a scale factor applied to the EM unit of the font. Values have the following meanings:
>> 
>> <absolute-ratio>
>>  An <absolute-ratio> keyword refers to an entry in a table of font-stretch ratios computed and kept by the UA. Possible values are:
>> 
>>  [ normal | ultra-condensed | extra-condensed | condensed | semi-condensed | semi-expanded | expanded | extra-expanded | ultra-expanded ]
>> 
>> Absolute keyword values have the following ordering, from narrowest to widest. The following table provides a sample of user agent's guideline for the absolute-size scaling factor. Some user agent may use a scale which increase geometrically.
>> 
>> Value   Description     % of normal
>> -----------------------------------
>> 1       Ultra-condensed  50
>> 2       Extra-condensed  62.5
>> 3       Condensed        75
>> 4       Semi-condensed   87.5
>> 5       Medium (normal)  100
>> 6       Semi-expanded    112.5
>> 7       Expanded         125
>> 8       Extra-expanded   150
>> 9       Ultra-expanded   200
>> 
>> <relative- ratio>
>>  A <relative-ratio> keyword is interpreted relative to the table of font-stretch ratios and the font-stretch ratio of the parent element. Possible values are:
>> 
>>  [ wider | narrower ]
>> 
>> For example, if the parent element has a font-stretch ratio of 'normal' a value of 'wider' will make the font-stretch ratio of the current element be 'wider'. If the parent element's ratio is not close to a table entry, the user agent is free to interpolate between table entries or round off to the closest one. The user agent may have to extrapolate table values if the numerical value goes beyond keywords.
>> 
>> <percentage>
>>  A percentage value specifies a font-stretch ratio to the normal font-stretch ratio. Use of percentage values leads to more robust and cascadable style sheets.
>> 
>> ************************
>> Msahiro Fujishima 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, 
>>  somewhere, may be happy.”
>>  —H.L. Mencken
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, 
>  somewhere, may be happy.”
>  —H.L. Mencken
> 
> 
Received on Saturday, 15 January 2011 20:16:00 GMT

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