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RE: [css3-speech] ISSUE-153 speak: none; usage incompatible with other values of speak

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:37:22 -0500
To: Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>, "www-style@w3.org list" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0AAF13A4F6@MAILR001.mail.lan>
Thank you for your response, Daniel.

> in your example, am I right to assume that *both* base-text and ruby- text
> are designed to be displayed in the visual canvas ?

Yes, like the one in the sample picture[1].

> If yes, why should only ruby-text be rendered in the aural dimension ?

Ruby is a layout method to display phonetic along with the text. You don't want to read both text and its phonetic. It's commonly used in Japan and sometime in China where characters do not represent sounds and therefore some readers may not be able to guess how it reads.

You can think this similar to the previous example Steve brought up:

<ruby>
  tomato
  <rt>toe-MAH-toe</rt>
</ruby>

Readers may or may not want to display "toe-MAH-toe" in visual canvas, it depends on reader's preferences, but from TTS perspective, "toe-MAH-toe" is the sound for the whole element. If TTS reads both, it will be "tomato toe-MAH-toe", right?

[1] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ruby/#ruby-def


Regards,
Koji

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Weck [mailto:daniel.weck@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 10:00 PM
To: www-style@w3.org list; Koji Ishii
Subject: Re: [css3-speech] ISSUE-153 speak: none; usage incompatible with other values of speak

Hi Koji,

in your example, am I right to assume that *both* base-text and ruby- text are designed to be displayed in the visual canvas ? If yes, why should only ruby-text be rendered in the aural dimension ?

Thanks, Daniel

On 6 Feb 2011, at 12:20, Koji Ishii wrote:

> Could we add a 'force' value, so that it can override 'none' in 
> descendant elements?
>
> Current HTML5/EPUB3 does not allow rb element within ruby element.  
> It is being discussed[1], but we haven't get conclusions yet. If this 
> issue wasn't resolved, we might end up with this mark up:
>
> <ruby>
>  base-text
>  <rt>ruby-text</rt>
> </ruby>
>
> To skip base-text while speakable ruby-text, UA style sheet would want 
> to use styles like this:
>
> ruby { speakability: none; }
> rt { speakability: force; }
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10830
>
>
> Regards,
> Koji
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org] On 
> Behalf Of Daniel Weck
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:15 PM
> To: Mark Kenny; www-style@w3.org list; Charles Belov
> Subject: Re: [css3-speech] ISSUE-153 speak: none; usage incompatible 
> with other values of speak
>
> The latest editor's draft now includes a new 'speakability' property.
> The 'none' value of the 'speak' property has been removed. Note how 
> "speakability:none" is analogous to "display:none" (the prose is
> near- identical).
>
> Please review [1].
>
> Regards, Daniel
>
> [1]
> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-speech/#speaking-props
>
> On 23 Jan 2011, at 06:05, fantasai wrote:
>> Maybe something like
>>
>> speakability: auto | none | normal
>> inherits: yes
>> initial: auto
>>
>> auto - Computes to 'none' when 'display' is 'none'.
>>      A computed value of 'auto' yields a used value of 'none'.
>> none - The element is not rendered aurally. (It's pauses, cues, 
>> rests,
>>      and content are not rendered.)
>> normal - The element is rendered aurally.
>>
>> That would hook into "display: none" rules when wanted, but allow 
>> other interpretations as wanted.
>>
>> (I can't say I've fully thought this through, however.)
>>
>> ~fantasai
>
>

Daniel Weck
daniel.weck@gmail.com
Received on Sunday, 6 February 2011 13:36:42 GMT

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