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Re: [css3-lists] [css3-speech] Interaction between list-style-type and speak properties

From: Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 03:49:56 +0100
Cc: Charles Belov <Charles.Belov@sfmta.com>
Message-Id: <8C62FE87-D881-4B0E-85E1-B9205B509323@gmail.com>
To: "www-style@w3.org list" <www-style@w3.org>
Hi !

It looks like some core "list item style" issues are still being  
heavily debated [1]. This is a healthy discussion and I am certainly  
learning a lot about the various types of language-dependent counters  
<wink>, but I am not sure how to best go about this related CSS3- 
Speech issue [2]. Ideally, support for HTML lists should be expressed  
in a relatively markup-agnostic manner (to cater for the discrepancies  
between HTML versions), and similarly, such support should be provided  
without specific dependencies on CSS3-Lists. This significantly limits  
the feature scope that authors can rely on to control speech output  
for list items. Any suggestion ?

Thanks !
Regards, Daniel

[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Apr/0705.html

[2]
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-speech/#issue-lists

On 16 Mar 2011, at 22:14, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> On 7 Feb 2011, at 21:04, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>>>> But in the case of a public meeting, where we have a legally  
>>>> published
>>>> agenda, and items are called by the chair by letter, it would be
>>>> important to me that the rendered speech be:
>>>>
>>>> A. First item
>>>> B. Second item
>>>> C. Third item
>>>>
>>>> and I would definitely *not* want to leave this decision
>>>> to the user agent.
>>>
>>> This is an important case for more than just Speech.  In general,
>>> sometimes the list marker is important content and shouldn't be
>>> CSS-controlled.
>>>
>>> To solve this, I'm going to propose an 'inline' value for
>>> list-style-type and a 'marker' value for display, which lets you  
>>> write
>>> the marker directly in the content, mark it as a marker, then  
>>> display
>>> it like a list item marker.  In this case, Speech should indeed read
>>> the actual content of the marker.
>>>
>>> This proposal will show up in the draft sometime this week as I  
>>> finish
>>> out my first draft.
>>
>> Hi Tab,
>>
>> I've tried to keep track of changes [1] in the CSS3-Lists editor's  
>> draft [2]
>> since this CSS3-Speech issue was raised. How stable is the current
>> CSS3-Lists draft specification now ? Any idea of how far it is  
>> likely to get
>> up the W3C recommendation ladder, within the next few months?  From  
>> the
>> perspective of CSS3-Speech, it is preferable to minimize the  
>> dependencies on
>> other parts of CSS3, especially those in draft stage. I am not  
>> totally sure
>> that CSS3-Speech needs new list-specific properties (read on).
>
> I'm actively working on it right now, and should finish my edits this
> week and request to publish as WD immediately after.  Progress to CR
> depends on implementors giving me feedback on the parts of the spec
> that aren't just clarifications or conservative additions.
>
>
>> I have been studying the speech-synthesis aspects surrounding lists  
>> and
>> tables more closely since Charles raised the issue. It is clear  
>> that the
>> CSS3-Speech module cannot remain silent (pun intended) about these  
>> special
>> content structures: regardless of whether CSS3-Speech needs new
>> functionality to allow authors to explicitly control list and table  
>> aural
>> rendering, we should at least describe what is out-of-scope, and  
>> what the
>> basic level of support is (I will propose some specification  
>> language in the
>> editor's draft soon).
>
> Sure, sounds reasonable.
>
>
>> PS: how come the CSS3-Lists specification hosted at dev.w3c.org is  
>> not
>> marked as an editor's draft ? (you know, with the red label on the  
>> left of
>> the page, such as [3]) Is this an error with the Makefile, or the  
>> W3C HTML
>> post-processor service ?
>
> Some error with how the post-processor sniffs for the version.  We
> fixed it with Image Values (by putting back the things the
> post-processor sniffs for), but I forget how and haven't cared enough
> to look into the problem again for Lists.
>
> ~TJ
Received on Wednesday, 27 April 2011 02:50:28 GMT

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