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Re: [css3-lists] Remaining feedback on the module

From: Matitiahu Allouche <matial@il.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 00:26:14 +0300
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Cc: public-i18n-core@w3.org, WWW International <www-international@w3.org>, www-international-request@w3.org, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OFF7B4DD2D.6F9002B6-ONC2257878.003D7F69-C2257878.0075D007@il.ibm.com>
Tab Atkins wrote:

5. I'm told there's a Hebrew alphabetic system: "This uses the Hebrew
letters without final
forms, i.e. U05D0-U05EA excluding U05DA, U05DD, U05DF, U05E3 and
U05E5".  I'd like some confirmation that this exists and is used,
along with some confirmation of the given definition.

and also

9. Apparently, at least some hebrew books number their pages with a
simpler additive system which just uses the the characters associated
with 1-9, 10-90, and 100-400, then just repeats TAV (the character for
400) repeatedly for larger numbers (so 1100 would be תתש, rather than
א׳ק).  Can I switch to *just* this system (allowing me to eliminate
the special definition of Hebrew in favor of a simple @counter-style
rule), or is there still a good case for the current definition?

If I understand what Tab Atkins means, in the first case (paragraph 5), 
the number 10 will be expressed with the tenth letter of the alphabet and 
the number 11 will be expressed with the eleventh letter of the alphabet 
(without the final forms). In the second case (paragraph 9), the number 10 
will be expressed with the tenth letter of the alphabet and the number 11 
will be expressed with the tenth letter followed by the first letter.
Both systems are legitimate, but the second one is more natural in modern 
usage.

I see no problem using repeated TAV for numbers higher than 799. This 
should be understood by whoever understands the notation up to 799. And 
frankly, I don't see that lists longer than a few dozens of items are 
critical.

Shalom (Regards),  Mati
           Bidi Architect
           Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
           IBM Israel
           Fax: +972 2 5870333    Mobile: +972 52 2554160




From:   "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
To:     www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
Cc:     WWW International <www-international@w3.org>, 
public-i18n-core@w3.org
Date:   20/04/2011 03:01
Subject:        [css3-lists] Remaining feedback on the module
Sent by:        www-international-request@w3.org



[Cross-posting between www-style, www-international, and
public-i18n-core. Please maintain all three of these lists in your
replies so we don't split the thread unnecessarily.]

When I started working on the CSS Lists Module
<http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists>, Hixie sent me the collected feedback
he'd received since 2002.  I've now processed the majority of that
feedback into spec edits, but I've got a couple of items still left,
which I'll summarize in this email.  If anyone has direct feedback on
these items, or can hook me up with people who might have relevant
feedback, please let me know!

I plan to cut a new Working Draft of the module at the end of this
month, so timely responses are appreciated.

1. I need to add some south asian systems.  The W3C's Indian i18n
group started responding about this a little while ago, but stopped
responding to my requests for clarification.  I need to restart talks
with them.

2. Greek styles are incomplete.  I've got a big chunk of greek
feedback that I haven't properly processed yet.  >_<

3. Are my current arabic/persian/urdu/etc systems sufficient, or are
there differences that I'm not currently capturing?

4. Apparently Koranic verse has a particular numbering scheme
different from general arabic/etc numbering.  Can anyone confirm this
and/or describe it for me?

5. I'm told there's a Hebrew alphabetic system: "This uses the Hebrew
letters without final
forms, i.e. U05D0-U05EA excluding U05DA, U05DD, U05DF, U05E3 and
U05E5".  I'd like some confirmation that this exists and is used,
along with some confirmation of the given definition.

6. Should I add more european alphabetic styles, like a german one
that includes umlauts?  I've heard conflicting feedback (from Hakon, I
believe) saying that I should instead drop the alternate european
styles that currently exist, as list numbering is typically done using
just the base english alphabet.

7. Are Aegean (U+10107-10133), Shavian (U+10450-1047F), and Ugaritic
(U+10380-1039D) things I should address?  I dunno if these are living
or dead scripts.

8. Should I allow custom negative signs to be defined?  Right now all
the numeric styles just use hyphen-minus.  Do any languages require a
different negative sign?

9. Apparently, at least some hebrew books number their pages with a
simpler additive system which just uses the the characters associated
with 1-9, 10-90, and 100-400, then just repeats TAV (the character for
400) repeatedly for larger numbers (so 1100 would be תתש, rather than
א׳ק).  Can I switch to *just* this system (allowing me to eliminate
the special definition of Hebrew in favor of a simple @counter-style
rule), or is there still a good case for the current definition?

~TJ



Received on Wednesday, 20 April 2011 21:27:56 GMT

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