W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2010

Re: [css3-text-layout] New editor's draft - margin-before/after/start/end etc.

From: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ishii Koji <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Cc: "MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given)" <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp>, www-style@w3.org, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Message-ID: <931046888.434748.1276488390687.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
Koji Ishii wrote:

> I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind. I just want to
> clearly understand the current situation. I also wish you to
> understand what issues we have right now, how Asian cultures differ
> from yours, and hopefully wish you to come up with a good solution
> everyone can live together.
> You know, I heard there's a culture in the world where nodding means
> "no" rather than "yes". We can't force them to change their culture.
> They can't change ours. There's no single answer which is right. Both
> parties should just agree upon there's a cultural difference here, and
> then we can communicate to each other, right?

I think you're confusing cultural differences in text display with a
more subtle requirement to support *both* vertical and horizontal
writing modes without using separate styles for horizontal and vertial
text display. The discussion here has centered around that

Without that requirement, the difference between physical and logical
dimensions is less meaningful I think. Left is left, in Norway,
Lebanon or Japan, logical dimensions don't provide any inherent
advantage to someone who is laying out elements on a page in a single
preferred direction or in a mixture of vertical and horizontal

Beyond the discussion of physical vs. logical dimensions, CSS has
historically been used to style HTML content, so fully supporting
vertical text layout means thinking through the impact on all of HTML,
not just a simple subset of it.

Looking over XSL 1.1, I'm wondering why that wouldn't be a better
basis for an EPUB standard.  It already has the physical/logical model
distinction and defines various writing-mode features.  It's also not
burdened with being the default styling language for all of HTML.
Given that the EPUB standard is essentially picking a subset of pieces
from other standards, it can define a subset of elements and style
properties that fully support flipping between vertical and horizontal
text modes while minimizing the impact of these features on EPUB


John Daggett
Received on Monday, 14 June 2010 04:07:03 UTC

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