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RE: [CSS21] bidi, text-align, and list markers

From: Tex Texin <textexin@xencraft.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:59:23 -0700
To: "'Markus Ernst'" <derernst@gmx.ch>, "'Adil Allawi'" <adil@diwan.com>, <aharon@google.com>
Cc: <public-i18n-bidi@w3.org>, <www-style@w3.org>, <bert@w3.org>, <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, <alan@css-class.com>, <ambrose.li@gmail.com>, <jackalmage@gmail.com>, <addison@lab126.com>
Message-ID: <001d01cb04e1$37496260$a5dc2720$@com>
Markus,

That was also my point. I don't see the case for the bullet switching sides within the list. So, there is either:

* hello
* OLLEH

Or 

Hello *
OLLEH *

However, that is too simple. The bullet image or characters might also be directional:

*) hello
*) OLLEH

Or 

Hello (*
OLLEH (*

The bullet image may need a direction setting, independent of its placement.
For checkboxes, there are checked and unchecked images.
Also, when hovering over the items, the bullet may need to look different.
And if the bullets were numeric, the digits might need to change from European to Arabic.
That is a lot of options to consider around the direction changing.

The list need not be vertical. If the list goes horizontal, things get really ugly:

*) hello *) OLLEH Hello (* OLLEH (*

For lists, I don't see the case for changing per item.

Going in to the discussion this week, it would be good if we had lots of examples (print or web) of use cases we need to support. There are lots of theoretical cases, which are impractical, and many actual cases which we might not reflect on during the discussion.

Any suggestions for online places to look for large varieties of actual, typical or desirable bidi use cases?

Any established or accepted references for RTL UI or print design guidelines?
Tex

-----Original Message-----
From: public-i18n-bidi-request@w3.org [mailto:public-i18n-bidi-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Markus Ernst
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 10:11 AM
To: Adil Allawi; aharon@google.com
Cc: public-i18n-bidi@w3.org; www-style@w3.org; bert@w3.org; fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net; alan@css-class.com; ambrose.li@gmail.com; jackalmage@gmail.com; addison@lab126.com
Subject: Re: [CSS21] bidi, text-align, and list markers

> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 10:33:11 +0100
> Von: Adil Allawi <adil@diwan.com>

> I think there is a need to control, through CSS, of the bullet   
> alignment 
> separately from the text align and a new value (for want of a better 
> name) 'match-dir' to give the alignment based on the dir attribute of 
> the <li> element as follows:
> 
> For a list starting with <ul dir="ltr"><li>hello</li> :
> 
> 1. <li dir="rtl" style="text-align:match-dir;      
> bullet-align:match-dir">HELLO gives:
> 
> * hello
>                   OLLEH *    
> 2. <li dir="rtl" style="text-align:match-dir; 
> bullet-align:match-parent">HELLO gives:
> 
> * hello
> *                 OLLEH    
> 4. <li style="text-align:match-parent; bullet-align:match-dir">HELLO  
>  
>   (with no styles) gives:
> * hello
>   OLLEH *
> 
> 
> 3. <li style="text-align:match-parent; 
> bullet-align:match-parent">HELLO(with no styles) gives:
> 
> * hello
> * OLLEH
> 
> 
>  
> The default behavior of the HTML with no CSS would be one of the   
> four possibilities above.

There is one point that I don't understand about the whole discussion: Is there any use case where a rendering other than 

* hello
* OLLEH

would be desired? It is the only one that does not look broken to me.
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Received on Saturday, 5 June 2010 18:59:59 GMT

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