W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > December 2010

Re: [CSS3-text] text-underline-position and superscript

From: Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:37:35 +1100
Message-ID: <4D17451F.2080401@css-class.com>
To: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
CC: Ambrose LI <ambrose.li@gmail.com>, "Belov, Charles" <Charles.Belov@sfmta.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
On 26/12/2010 9:09 PM, Koji Ishii wrote:
> Are you sure that you two are talking about the same issue?
>
>> From what I understand, what Charles wants is to fix underlines for
>> superscript and subscript. I agree that what current browsers do
>> today seems odd, but I'm not sure if we need more values to
>> text-underline-position.
>
> Does anyone want the current behavior? It looks to me that it's just
> a bug we should fix without adding new values.


This is not a bug. Unlike CJK and similar like scripts, Latin can be 
underlined with some words containing long descenders, and have the 
underline passing through the lower portion of the long descenders. It 
does not hinder the understanding of Latin script and has been normal 
thing seen in Latin scripts for centuries.

Something like this,

      A jumping playful day it has been
    ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
would appear incorrect where something like this,

    _A jumping playful day it has been_

would appear correct since the underline is drawn on the baseline [1]. 
One example of Blackletter [2] from the 15th century has a continues 
underline (baseline) with long descenders passing through.

<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Calligraphy.malmesbury.bible.arp.jpg>


In the parts of the world where children write Latin, it common to used 
lined paper to practice handwriting. For the younger children, they 
learn to form the descenders correctly by writing a word over several 
rows. Here is a classic example with two rows.

<http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/handwriting-a-skill-for-a-digital-age.html>


> What Ambrose wants is what Kenny brought up before[1] and discussion
> wasn't followed up by anyone. If you could follow that up, that'd be
> helpful.
>
> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Dec/0117.html
>
>
> Regards, Koji


This is since current implementation has well defined concepts of 
baseline and leading for Latin script.

<!DOCTYPE html>
<div style="background: white;">
<p style="width: 12em; line-height: 1;"><span style="border-top: 1px 
solid red; border-bottom: 1px solid blue;">text gjpqy text gjpqy text 
gjpqy text gjpqy <span style="background: rgba(127, 255, 127, 
0.5);">text gjpqy</span> text gjpqy text gjpqy text gjpqy text 
gjpqy</span></p>

<p style="width: 14em; line-height: 1; font-size: 200%;"><span 
style="border-top: 1px solid red; border-bottom: 1px solid blue;">text 
gjpqy text gjpqy text gjpqy text gjpqy <span style="background: 
rgba(127, 255, 127, 0.5);">text gjpqy</span> text gjpqy text gjpqy text 
gjpqy text gjpqy</span></p>
</div>

This type of inline formatting is good for Latin script. Note that the 
value line-height (leading) is 1. Note also that the letter j has it's 
top and descender part just inside the blue line on each line.

What is required is a new inline formatting for non Latin scripts.


1. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseline_(typography)>
2. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackletter>

-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
Received on Sunday, 26 December 2010 13:38:12 GMT

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