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Re: [CSSWG] Minutes F2F 2009-06-05 Part I: SVG Properties, Fonts

From: Thomas Phinney <tphinney@cal.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:49:14 -0700
Message-ID: <f49ae6ac0906180949t3fbdbb91k54d2f9e8c7214cf7@mail.gmail.com>
To: www-style@w3.org
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Thomas
Phinney<tphinney@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Zack Weinberg<zweinberg@mozilla.com> wrote:
>> Thomas Phinney <tphinney@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Just one comment:
>>>
>>> ...
>>> >  Steve: Original spec implied that values like 250 could not be
>>> > mapped into CSS model.
>>> >  John: It is a 9-point scale, forget about the actual values. Just
>>> > need to map the font onto nine points, whatever their names.
>>>
>>> No, it is NOT a 9-point scale. It is a numeric system of ~1000 units.
>>> Treating it as a 9-point scale (or as arbitrary labels) will get you
>>> into trouble.
>>
>> The font-weight property *as currently specified in CSS* is a 9-point
>> scale with arbitrary, ordered labels, that happen to have the form of
>> numbers. Quoting http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#font-boldness --
>>
>> 'font-weight'
>>  value: normal | bold | bolder | lighter | 100 | 200 | 300 | 400
>>  | 500 | 600 | 700 | 800 | 900 | inherit
>>
>> If it were a numeric system it would be
>>
>>  value: normal | bold | bolder | lighter | inherit | <integer>
>>
>> Now if what you are saying is that in order to handle all currently-
>> existing fonts, the spec needs to be changed to allow any integer in
>> the 0 ... 999 range, then OK, make that proposal.  But that is not the
>> way it is now, and I for one would want to see an example of a font
>> with more than nine weights in order to be convinced that a simple
>> mapping from this 9-point scale to whatever the values are in the
>> actual font would not suffice.  I'm skeptical about this because the
>> text at http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/os2.htm#wtc leads me
>> to believe that there are exactly nine possible values for
>> usWeightClass in a valid OpenType font.  (Would you be happier if the
>> spec were changed to use the names 'thin', 'extra-light', ... 'black'
>> from that list, instead?)
>
> Yes, that's what I'm saying, and I have made that proposal previously,
> and hereby make it again.
>
> There are a number of typefaces with more than nine weights, even if
> they aren't common. I'm asking around to get a list of some good
> examples.

A few examples of typefaces with more than nine weights:

- Flama, by Mario Feliciano, has ten.
- Ruse by Gerrit Noordzij has eleven.
- TheSans by Luc[as] de Groot has sixteen, if one counts the eight
hairline weights.
- Taz, also by Lucas, has fifteen, if one counts the five hairline weights.

All of the above folks are very prominent type designers, btw.

Cheers,

T
Received on Thursday, 18 June 2009 16:49:52 GMT

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