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Re: Projection media type in fullscreen browser mode

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:11:48 -0500
Message-ID: <dd0fbad0908171911i4ad5b4act7b2f4f2b88ad8596@mail.gmail.com>
To: Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+w3c@gmail.com>
Cc: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, www-style@w3.org
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Aryeh Gregor<Simetrical+w3c@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:00 PM, fantasai<fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote:
>> Opera's fullscreen mode is different from the others in that it is
>> a paged medium and is intended for use with a hookup to projectors.
>> Opera doesn't automatically paginate to the screen size, but if you
>> force a page break this paginates the document and can be used to
>> create slide shows. (See the OperaShow documentation.)
>>
>> It's a very useful mode; it would be nice if other browsers also
>> supported it. It would make things like S5 a lot less of a JS/CSS
>> mess.
>
> The mode sounds useful, but I don't think treating all use of
> full-screen as media type projection is a good solution here.  If you
> want a plain old screen stylesheet, and aren't providing a separate
> projection stylesheet -- i.e., you're 99.97% of websites out there --
> you would want full-screen mode to render exactly like screen.
> Therefore screen stylesheets need to apply in full-screen mode, in the
> overwhelming majority of cases.  Having projection apply to
> full-screen mode just means that "screen" alone is useless for almost
> all authors, and everyone needs to specify "screen,projection".  It's
> the tiny minority who want to support projections who should have to
> opt-in somehow, not everyone else who has to opt out to not have their
> site break.

Have you actually done any testing here?  Opera's fullscreen mode
responds to *both* "screen" and "projection".  Anything you specify as
applying to "screen" will still work just fine when Opera is
fullscreened.  You can just *also* load special rules that only apply
in fullscreen mode by wrapping them in a "@media projection" rule.

> This feature really seems orthogonal to media queries to me.  It
> should be triggered by the author, not the user.  Only the author
> knows if he wants to use his web page as a slideshow.  The user
> shouldn't trigger it by using a mode that at least I (and apparently
> the majority of browser developers) would expect to do nothing but
> give more space to the page's content.

If you're not using the projection media style, then it *does* do nothing.

> Why couldn't the spec allow authors to explicitly make continuous
> media paged somehow?  (At least handheld/screen/tv.  Obviously it
> makes no sense to page, e.g., speech.)  For instance, UAs could be
> required to make the media paged if @page rules are found.  Or a new
> rule could be invented to trigger this.  Then if you want to create a
> slideshow, you can do that in an interoperable way.  If you just want
> to create a normal web page, you should be able to provide screen
> stylesheets and expect them to apply to all users using a normal
> display.

We had a discussion about a "page" value for "overflow" a while back.
Nothing's come out of yet, but I definitely still think it's a great
idea.  The only problem is dealing with the page-nav controls.  Are
they auto-generated?  Where?  What do they look like?

~TJ
Received on Tuesday, 18 August 2009 02:12:49 GMT

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