W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2008

FW: [CSS21] Remove text about avoiding page breaks within floats, tables, and blocks with borders

From: Grant, Melinda <melinda.grant@hp.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 00:19:59 +0000
To: Saloni Mira Rai <salonir@microsoft.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <763AE400FE923441B74861D534DF254950FAD010AC@GVW0433EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Saloni said:
> I’d like to propose that we remove this text from 13.3.5 Paged Media of CSS 2.1 on “Best page breaks”


 *   Avoid breaking inside a block that has a border.
 *   Avoid breaking inside a table.
 *   Avoid breaking inside a floated element


Looks like this proposal was accepted.  Sorry I missed the discussion.  I agree the current verbiage is problematic, but...

Did the group consider alternate wording?  That is, these heuristics are good, I think, as considerations when choosing the best page break point, which is what this section's about.  I think the verb 'avoid' is problematic because of its association with the property value that prescribes certain behaviors -- it's too strong.  So taking a table as the example, assume a 3/4-page height table begins half-way down the page.  If the author didn't specify 'page-break-inside: avoid', the UA should probably save trees rather than leave half the page blank to avoid breaking inside the table.  But, if the table begins near the bottom of the page, especially if only the header row would fit on the page, the UA *should* trigger the page break before the table.  So we could say the UA should have an inherent mild aversion to breaking inside a table (bordered box, float).  At least, the UA should think about it and I think the spec should encourage the UA to think about it.

If it's not too late, could I propose that rather than delete we replace:
    - Avoid breaking inside a box that has a border.
    - Avoid breaking inside a table.
    - Avoid breaking inside a floated element
... with something like:
    ~ When a bordered box or a table or a floated element would begin near the end of the page but won't fit, weigh the benefits of breaking before the item rather than inside it in choosing the page break.  Gaps in page coverage caused by breaking before such content subtract from those benefits.

I also think we should consider adding:
    + Avoid breaking inside a replaced element.

Best wishes,

Melinda

________________________________
From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Saloni Mira Rai
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:18 AM
To: www-style@w3.org
Subject: [CSS21] Remove text about avoiding page breaks within floats, tables, and blocks with borders

Hello,

I’d like to propose that we remove this text from 13.3.5 Paged Media of CSS 2.1 on “Best page breaks”


 *   Avoid breaking inside a block that has a border.
 *   Avoid breaking inside a table.
 *   Avoid breaking inside a floated element
These are not realistic for the pages on the web today and not in line with what browsers do.
If authors really want the effect they can use the page-break-inside: avoid property.

Thanks,
Saloni


-------------------------------------
Saloni Mira Rai
IE Developer Experience PM
425-421-8505
Received on Wednesday, 8 October 2008 00:21:32 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 27 April 2009 13:55:15 GMT