W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > August 2008

Re: Additional value for the visibility property

From: Simon Fraser <smfr@mac.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 05:46:36 +0000
Cc: robert@ocallahan.org, "Ph. Wittenbergh" <jk7r-obt@asahi-net.or.jp>, W3C Style List <www-style@w3.org>
Message-id: <9FE71419-79A5-413A-8ED9-796AC27A92F7@mac.com>
To: Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com>

On Jul 9, 2008, at 11:26 AM, Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

> Robert O'Callahan wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com 
>>  <mailto:news@terrainformatica.com>> wrote:
>>    That is what I would like to clarify - how exactly it should be
>>    rendered.
>> I think it's clear that according to the spec it should be rendered  
>> the way Gecko and Webkit render it.
>> If you're suggesting that the spec should be changed --- this has  
>> been specified and interoperably implemented in Gecko and Webkit  
>> for years, so I think you'd need a pretty strong argument.  
>> Personally it feels unnatural to me to render an element and its  
>> descendants as a single composition group but carve out an  
>> exception for descendants that happen to be out-of-flow. (Although  
>> I'm not actually sure what you're proposing, since there might be  
>> descendants which are out-of-flow but still have the element as  
>> their containing block ancestor.)
> Opacity is an attribute of some layer. Element and its in-flow  
> descendants is a layer. absolute positioned elements
> establish their own layers.
> It appears that Opera:
> 1) draws element and only in-flow children on the offscreen buffer  
> (layer)
> 2) each absolute positioned element - descendant of transparent  
> parent - inherits value of opacity and draws
> itself on separate offscreen buffer (layer).
> 3) these buffers are blended separately with respect of z-order.
> That appear as the only correct way of doing this.
> FF and WebKit share the same error. Take a look on these samples:
> http://terrainformatica.com/w3/opacity.htm
> http://terrainformatica.com/w3/no-opacity.htm
> These two files are the same except of transparency.
> Note that FF and WebKit simply ignore value of z-index when opacity  
> is applied.

Actually the behavior is correct in FF and WebKit, which create  
stacking contexts for elements with non-1 opacity. CSS 2.1 says (<http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#layers 
"Stacking contexts are not necessarily related to containing blocks.  
In future levels of CSS, other properties may introduce stacking  
contexts, for example 'opacity' "

In <http://terrainformatica.com/w3/opacity.htm>, div.container has  
opacity, and therefore sets up a stacking context. This means that  
'kid' is rendered into that stacking context. 'stranger' does not  
share that stacking context, and is thus rendered on top.

In <http://terrainformatica.com/w3/no-opacity.htm>, all elements share  
the same stacking context, so the z-index on 'kid' brings it in front  
of the other two elements.

Received on Wednesday, 6 August 2008 14:22:58 UTC

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