W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2005

Re: Simple template-based editing

From: Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:01:27 -0700
Message-ID: <005001c5c855$3ddf31e0$c302000a@internal.toppro.net>
To: "Dimitri Glazkov" <dimitri.glazkov@gmail.com>
Cc: "Daniel Glazman" <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>, "W3C CSS" <www-style@w3.org>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dimitri Glazkov" <dimitri.glazkov@gmail.com>

| On 10/3/05, Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com> wrote:
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Daniel Glazman" <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
| > >
| > > Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
| > >
| > >> There is not question they are both lists. However, the <select> list
| > >> has inherent input semantics that are not present in a <ul>|<ol>.
| > >
| > > No, it has no "input semantics". It has a different input behavior, while
| > > a <ul> has no input behavior by default.
| > >
| >
| > Agree.
| Hmm... Maybe I didn't say it right, but what I meant is that "select"
| communicates to the UA what are expected input choices are for a given
| POST or GET query parameter. That's not something ordinary lists can
| do.
| Is this what you mean by input behavior? I would think that term
| should refer to how the actual UI element works in the browser.

As you know these two lists being placed in form will produce exactly
the same GET/POST request to the server:

<select size=3 name="list">
   <option value="1" selected>One</option>
   <option value="2" >Two</option>
   <option value="3" >Three</option>
<ul style="overflow:auto">
    <li><input type=radio name="list" value="1" checked />One</li>
    <li><input type=radio name="list" value="2" />Two</li>
    <li><input type=radio name="list" value="3" />Three</li>

These lists differ only by presentational style and, again, very slightly
by behavior ( e.g. second one enumerates items by tab, first one by arrow 
keys ).

"...That's not something ordinary lists can do..."

Imagine that you have something like this:

ul { overflow:auto; }
ul > li { behavior:radio; role:form-field; }

<ul name="list">
    <li value="1" checked>One</li>
    <li value="2">Two</li>
    <li value="3">Three</li>

Then on submit smart UA can enumerate all elements
in the form(or other container) with role == "form-field" and send them to the 

Some comments on 'role'/'behavior' attributes:

'behavior' defines interaction style of the element.
'role' defines its purpose e.g. form-field.

Another example:
in-place WYSIWYG editing may require something like:
<span style="behavior:checkbox; role:observer" name="strong-state" />
near some <htmlarea> to show strong/non-strong state at its caret position.
Having role:observer defined will ommit sending its value to the server on 

Theoretically yours,

Andrew Fedoniouk.
Received on Monday, 3 October 2005 20:01:53 UTC

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