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Re: New layout language.

From: <Kris@meridian-ds.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:08:09 -0500
To: www-style@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFCB85DF71.C3E0F25E-ON86257036.0079988D-86257036.007998A7@meridian-ds.com>


OK Orion I think we're at least getting somewhere.

Let's see if we're on the same page.

1.) CSS can do a lot currently, and is close to working for layouts the way
you would expect and want.

2.) most of your other issues have been addressed/resolved with the
exception of commingling of formatting and layout.

That about right?

With that as the case, let us preface this.  Point two is really a
religious point.  It's one that can be argued until everyone is blue in the
face with essentially no change.

So with that in mind, let me start at this one gently.  I'm going to lay as
solid a foundation as I can, and move from there.

We're going to assume that you're right.  Layout and Formatting should be
encapsulated in different files.  You've suggestion different languages,
and I'm opposed to that since CSS already takes care of both issues.  I
think we can probably except that position. I hope.

>From there let us assume that you're correct.  HTML should be formatted by
one document, and the layout should be controlled by another.  Nevermind
that these documents are written in the same language, the real point of
the arguement is what SHOULD be happening.  Now, I don't know if I agree
that it SHOULD happen... but I can definitely see how it might be
beneficial.  With that said, all the selecting power we currently have in
css gives us everything we need to do this currently.

Example:

if I have an id of main I can format in one document the layout thus:

#main {
 whatever:css;
}

and in another document I have a number of text formatting options open to
me.  I can either add a class to the same element of main, and then define
that class here, or I can also format the id main for general text
purposes.  In fact, in my mind the fact that we're using the same language
to describe the format and layout is beneficial.  It means we can get away
with having less information directly in the html document.  Yes?

Assuming Yes, then we're back to the REAL problem.  The real problem is
that people DON'T do this.  And the reason they don't is that layout and
format ARE written in the same language.  Path of least resistance suggests
that we put them in the same document which is where your problem come up
(as I understand it).  So this is less an arguement of how things work, and
more an arguement of how things OUGHT to work.  And I agree, the idea is
beneficial.  But IMO, it's JUST an idea.  It's an intruiging enough idea
that I may very well give it a go on my next project.  But truthfully, I
find marking up two seperate documents somewhat of a pain... no matter how
logical it may be.

I think that about covers it as far as I can see.  To sum up:

1.) What you suggest has possible benefits.

2.) Ultimately what you suggest is only an idea.

3.) Perhaps it could have far reaching effects if it were actually taught
to people, but ultimately, that's not really the consortium's job.

So like I said, it's a nice idea, but as I see it, it's really just an
idea.  It's easy to implement, but that's a personal style point, not a
definition of how it WILL be.  Chances are there will always be people who
will mix layout and format.  It just stream-lines stuff.  :-)

Kris
Received on Wednesday, 6 July 2005 22:08:36 GMT

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