W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2003

Re: author-defined color aliases

From: Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:59:32 -0700
Cc: www-style@w3.org, Ben Godfrey <afternoon@uk2.net>
To: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Message-Id: <F499CFA3-A05E-11D7-9EDE-000393D9E692@idyllmtn.com>

On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 05:22 PM, Chris Lilley wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, 1:19:20 AM, Kynn wrote:
> KB> On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 03:28 PM, Ben Godfrey wrote:
>>> Please try to accept that the web we have is a visually rich web for
>>> more reasons than designers liking fancy schmancy pixels. This list
>>> should be about helping those who want to create pretty pages and not
>>> just pure functionality. After all, the web is about people. If it 
>>> was
>>> about computers, this list wouldn't exist.

> KB> You should be careful about equating "people" with "visually
> KB> rich web"-- as there are plenty of people who use the Web 
> constantly
> KB> who have never seen a visual Web page, ever.

> And you, in turn, should be careful in assuming that the visually
> disabled are universally against the non-visually-disabled enjoying
> visually rich websites.

I never made that statement.  It was your assumption.  When did I _ever_
claim that the visually disabled are "universally" (or even partially)
against the other people enjoying Web sites?

(Answer:  I never made this claim, so please don't attribute it to me.
I really, _really_ hate when people make up false arguments and expect
me to defend them.  I get in enough trouble as it is for the things
I actually say that I'd rather not have folks lying about what I've

> I didn't see Ben say 'all people' just 'people'. Creating visually
> rich websites, especially doing so using stylesheets, should be
> encouraged not discouraged on this list.

I never discouraged it.  Are you sure you read what I wrote?  In some
alternate universe did my counterpart discourage the creation of
visually rich Web sites, and a cosmic anomaly caused the email
streams to cross pandimensionally?

> KB> People with disabilities are -- understandably, based on millennia
> KB> of continuing discrimination -- sensitive when you assume that
> KB> they are not "people."

> Or when you make assumptions about their motivations and wishes
> without asking them if you can speak on their behalf. 'Does he take
> sugar' cuts both ways...


I'm sorry.  If you like, I can go poll some people who are blind and see
if they agree that they're people?

(I'd do exactly that, except I've already received email from Ben 
saying, in effect, "woops, thanks for the reminder," so the point is
really moot.  I don't care enough about knocking down Chris's straw
man arguments to bother...)

Just, Chris, quit making up lies about what I've said, and we'll be 
'kay?  If you want to make a point about the importance of visually
rich Web styles, by all means go for it.  It's a good enough point by
itself without you having to claim I said otherwise.


Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>                     http://kynn.com
Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain                http://idyllmtn.com
Author, CSS in 24 Hours                       http://cssin24hours.com
Inland Anti-Empire Blog                      http://blog.kynn.com/iae
Shock & Awe Blog                           http://blog.kynn.com/shock
Received on Monday, 16 June 2003 20:54:38 UTC

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