W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > January 2003

Re: XBL is (mostly) W3C redundant, and CSS is wrong W3C layer for semantic behavior *markup

From: Bernd Mielke <bernd_mozilla@gmx.de>
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 10:06:33 +0100
Message-ID: <3E16A419.6080905@gmx.de>
To: Shelby Moore <shelby@coolpage.com>
CC: www-style@w3.org


> Afaik, you and Ian are not semantic experts (nothing in your resumes to
> support such).

Could you please stop questioning the competence of Tantek, at least as
long as it takes time to read http://tantek.com/log/2002/12.html (hint: 
it is
really worth the reading, you might even understand why you should name 
your
essay "XBL considered harmfull").

You might even stop as long at it takes to read the source of his blog 
and compare it to the following markup:

<html>
<head>
<title>hello world</title>
<meta NAME="keywords" CONTENT="Cool Page,3Dize">
<meta NAME="Generator" CONTENT="Cool Page version 2.72 Free, Sep 15 2002 
for Windows">
<base TARGET="_top">
<style TYPE="text/css">BODY {margin-left:0; margin-right:0; 
margin-top:0;}</STYLE>
<style TYPE="text/css">
	.Arial-16pxn {font:normal 16px Arial, sans-serif}
</STYLE>
</head>

<body SCROLL="auto" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TOPMARGIN=0 LEFTMARGIN=0>

<script LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
<!--
var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();
var is_major=parseInt(navigator.appVersion);
var is_minor=parseFloat(navigator.appVersion);
var 
is_nav=((agt.indexOf('mozilla')!=-1)&&(agt.indexOf('spoofer')==-1)&&(agt.indexOf('compatible')==-1) 
&& (agt.indexOf('opera')==-1)&&(agt.indexOf('webtv')==-1));
var is_ie=(agt.indexOf('msie')!=-1);
if(is_ie){var agt_ie=agt.substring(agt.indexOf('msie')+5); 
is_major=parseInt(agt_ie); is_minor=parseFloat(agt_ie);}
var is_dom2=(document.getElementById);
var is_http=(window.location.protocol.indexOf('http')==0);
function jsStop( o ) { if(is_ie&&is_major>=4&&eval('document.'+o)){var 
e=eval('document.'+o);if(e.src&&e.src!=''&&e.ReadyState&&e.ReadyState>=4){e.stop();}}else{if(is_nav&&is_major>=3&&(is_major<4||eval('document.'+o))){eval('document.'+o+'.stop()');}} 
}
function jsPlay( o ) { if(is_ie&&is_major>=4&&eval('document.'+o)){var 
e=eval('document.'+o);if(e.src&&e.src!=''&&e.ReadyState&&e.ReadyState>=4){if(is_major>=5){e.play();}else{e.run();}}}else{if(is_nav&&is_major>=3&&(is_major<4||eval('document.'+o))){eval('document.'+o+'.play(false)');}} 
}

// Browser detect
if( is_minor < 3.5 )
    alert( "This page will not function properly in your 
browser.\n\nYour browser is very old.  Please upgrade your browser to 
version 4 or later.\n\nOr request the webmaster (of this page) to change 
their browser compatibility setting in Cool Page to version 3 browsers." );
else
{
    if( is_nav && is_minor < 5.0 )
       window.location.replace( 'index_nn4.html' + window.location.search );
}

function Link3Dize()
{
    if( confirm( "This page created with FREE version Cool 
Page.\n\nDownload your own FREE copy of Cool Page?\n\nClick Cancel to 
follow the link instead.  Note FREE version of Cool Page shows this 
popup message after 30 days of use.  Buy Cool Page to make this popup go 
away." ) )
       window.open( "http://www.coolpage.com/?aid=PgMadeWithCP", "3Dize" );
    return true;
}
//-->
</SCRIPT>

<div ID="idCoolxPagexButton" style="position:absolute; top:0px; 
left:0px; width:88px; height:31px;"><a HREF="javascript:;" 
onMouseOver="javascript:jsPlay('ididCoolPagexwavEmbed');window.status='This 
page created with Cool Page.  Click to get your own FREE copy of Cool 
Page!';return true" onClick="javascript:Link3Dize();return true" 
onMouseOut="javascript:jsStop('ididCoolPagexwavEmbed');window.status='';return 
true"><img SRC="Cool_Page_Button.gif" NAME="idCoolxPagexButtonImg" 
ID="idCoolxPagexButtonImg" ALT="This page created with Cool Page.  Click 
to get your own FREE copy of Cool Page!" WIDTH=88 HEIGHT=31 
BORDER=0></a></div>

<div style="position:absolute; top:0px; left:0px; width:1px; 
height:1px;"><a HREF="http://www.coolpage.com/"><img SRC="t.gif" ALT="" 
WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=1 BORDER=0></a></div>
<div ID="idElement1" style="position:absolute; top:65px; left:67px; 
width:224px; height:18px;"><table BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 
WIDTH=224><tr VALIGN=top><td><div align=left><font 
CLASS=Arial-16pxn>Hello World</font></div></td></tr></table></div>




<embed name="ididCoolPagexwavEmbed" src="CoolPage.wav" autostart="false" 
mastersound hidden="true" volume=100 width=0 height=0></embed>

</body>
</html>

Thats the markup I see from a simple Hello World example created with 
coolpage (the most recent version downloaded from your website). Please 
correct me if I am wrong:
> 23,000+ web sites made with Cool Page:
Does that mean 23000+ websites that do not validate at validator.w3.org?

I think you should try to convince Tim Berner Lee by direct mail to 
respond to this thread instead of using him as argument. Please don't 
forget to attach an example of the coolpage markup to that email to show 
by evidence how much you care about semantic markup.

Bernd
Received on Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:07:32 GMT

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