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Re: Re[4]: CSS3 - Define Language

From: Ineke van der Maat <inekemaa@xs4all.nl>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:03:29 +0100
Message-ID: <002701c1cd4f$8ea6efa0$0b513b3e@ineke>
To: "Thomas Hurst" <tom.hurst@clara.net>, <www-style@w3.org>


hallo Thomas,

I have a  text-only browser (lynx) and I really see <em class="Seitetitel"> rendered in another colour as the main text, so I don't know what is the problem. It may be only one different color, but that is IMO enough to show the difference with the main text that has another langauge specified.

When you want to mention  the name of the language, why not this? The language will be even rendered in a tooltip:
 <p><em class="fr" title="french">blabla</em></p> I want to have the most compact code as possible for saving energy and downloadtime ... so I will use this... 

But note that I use xhtml 1.1 so I have the main language of the page in the html-tag as< html...  xml:lang="en"> 

Why should I use a table? In all my sites I  only have  one single table till now  used for data (stage dates)  and even in Netscape 4.7 my sites are looking nice... though I have many texts and images next to eachother.. and also images next to images... see e.g http://www.groenlinkslelystad.nl/verkiezingen/gemeenteverkiezingen/programma/inhoud/ 
oo i see you use h2 and h4 but not h1 and h2.. I learnt that properly nested headings are very important to render the correct structure of a page in screenreaders... 

Cheers
Ineke van der Maat



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Hurst" <tom.hurst@clara.net>
To: <www-style@w3.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Re[4]: CSS3 - Define Language


> * Ineke van der Maat (inekemaa@xs4all.nl) wrote:
> 
> > Here is the best way to mark up every change of language???
> 
> <div xml:lang="fr">
> <h2>...</h2>
> <p>...</p>
> <table>..</table>
> </div>
> 
> Obviously if you switch between languages a lot you pay the price, but
> it's not as if you can't set up a macro in your editor to do it for you
> (and if you can't, might I suggest you get a better one (vim!) :)
> 
> > Yes my concern is legacy browsers, but I am convinced that for
> > text-only browsers this is the nicest solution or la plus belle
> > solution??
> 
> Text only browsers don't (yet) support CSS, and both these will come out
> the same:
> 
> > <p><em class="en" xml:lang="en">Jean put dire comment on tape</p>
> > <p><em class="fr" xml:lang="fr">Jean put dire comment on tape</p>
> 
> I think it's probably best to explicitly mention the language, so
> it keeps it's meaning even after, say, conversion to plaintext, or
> displayed on a mobile device or a browser that lacks CSS support:
> 
> <h4 class="langName">English</h4>
> <p xml:lang="en">Jean put dire comment on tape</p>
> 
> <h4 class="langName">French</h4>
> <p xml:lang="fr">Jean put dire comment on tape</p>
> 
> If you still want the languages to be displayed in colour only, you can
> always do:
> 
> /* Best use a CSS 2 selector so CSS 1 browsers don't turn off this
>  * information but leave the text the same
>  */
> *[class="langName"] {
>         display: none;
> }
> 
> *[xml:lang="fr"] { .. }
> 
> *[xml:lang="en"] { .. }
> 
> Although I'm not sure about that namespaced lang attribute selector.  In
> CSS 3 you'd use :lang(en), and want to use something CSS3 specific to
> match the <h4> *grumble*
> 
> Since we come across these kinds of things a lot; where one rule relies
> on another (you don't want to turn off the langName unless you can also
> change the individual language sections); I wonder if it would make
> sense to provide:
> 
> @critical {
>         /* rules where all must be ok or none are applied */
>         .langName { display: none; }
>         :lang(en):before { content: "English";color: black; }
>         :lang(fr):before { content: "French";color: red; }
> }
> 
> or so.
> 
> -- 
> Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  freaky@aagh.net  -  http://www.aagh.net/
> -
> The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
> -- Bohr
> 
> 
Received on Saturday, 16 March 2002 19:59:09 GMT

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