W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2000

Re: Ideas for the ACSS module of CSS3

From: Sean Palmer <wapdesign@wapdesign.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:49:24 +0100
Message-ID: <007b01c03789$8df89660$10d993c3@z5n9x1>
To: "fantasai" <fantasai@escape.com>
Cc: <www-style@w3.org>
>  | Name: alt.
>  | Provides an alternative content for User Agents to render if they find
>  | the current content unrenderable.
>
> This is to what I was referring.
Fair enough, I'll have to rephrase that in the next version ;-)

> You also wrote:
>
>  | Can also be used in conunction with the 'skip' property to provide a
>  | frag ID or URI to skip to when styled content is bypassed. <uri> (URI
>  | for the alternative content), or 'none' (none).
>
> To which I did not allude.
>
>
>  | *This is a WAI-WCAG requirement*: as per: (for example)
>  | http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-WCAG10-HTML-TECHS-20000920/#group-bypass
>  | "13.6 Group related links, identify the group (for user agents), and,
until
>  | user agents do so, provide a way to bypass the group. [Priority 3] "
>  |
>  | We could/should do that with CSS!
>
> Depends on how you do it, actually.
>
>  | > As for images, they have alt, which replaces the image with text.
Objects
>  | > can have textual content that won't be rendered by UAs supporting the
>  | > embedded media. And any future replaced elements should follow the
same
>  | > model of having a fallback.
>  |
>  | You're missing the point here entirely: I'm using this to replace
navbars,
>  | and other content in the DOM styled as optional. That's a valid WAI use
that
>  | isn't currently implementable in XHTML. It should be required that we
have
>  | it in CSS(3).
>
> As for missing the point, see above.
> As for this use not currently implementable in XHTML, see
>    http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#group-bypass

What? You gave me the same link as I gave you!
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-WCAG10-HTML-TECHS-20000920/#group-bypass
My point is that the HTML implementations are pretty terrible. I still
believe it is a style rather than a structural concern; then you can use
@media aural

> What do you want to replace the content with, though? Would you give me an
> example? I'm not entirely sure I understand the (second) purpose of this
'alt'.
Possibly an alternative quicker table of contents, for example, instead of:-
[home] [section 1] [section 2] ... [mail us]
You could point it to a file containing:-
[home] [mail us]
My examples are always crud, so I urge you to think of a better one if you
see what I am talking about ;-)

>  | > So, as far as I can see, there is already alternative content
available
>  | > for that which is unrenderable by the aural browser. Am I missing
>  | > something?
>  |
>  | If you are refering to the 'content' property, I am suggesting we have
an
>  | explicit 'alt' property as well.
>
> I am referring to the ability of (X)HTML to specify its own alternate
content
> for unrenderable media.
Yes, but what about an alt for ASCII art of something? They can't have alt
properties...

>  | >  | It's a style concern.
>  | > How so? You're replacing content, not specifying how to style what's
>  | > there!
>  |
>  | So explain the CSS content: property then! If that's a style, then so
is
>  | this...
>
> em:before, em:after {content: '/'}
> This sentence contains an /emphasized/ word.

Yes, but see my arguements above!

I belive this is a useful WAI CSS implementation: anyone that uses a voice
browser will *emphatically* agree with me. Adding a simple line to a CSS
stylesheet could save people having to change navigation bars on hundreds of
pages.

Kindest Regards,
Sean B. Palmer
WAP Tech Info - http://www.waptechinfo.com/
Received on Monday, 16 October 2000 11:56:20 GMT

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