W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > September 1999

Re: text direction and CSS

From: Garth Wallace <gwallace@usc.edu>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:11:40 -0700
Message-ID: <37E99A6C.651170C4@usc.edu>
To: www-style@w3.org
www-style-request@w3.org wrote:
> Cleaning out my mailbox...
> Concerning http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-format/ (note that the WD has
> been updated on Sep 11)
> Garth Wallace wrote on Aug 11:
> > - First, Japanese line breaks are a little more complicated than
> > that. Breaking inside a katakana string is okay, but hiragana
> > is mostly used for word endings and particles (conjugation,
> > declention, etc.) and in that case should be associated with
> > the preceding kanji. In other words, the line should never break
> > before a hiragana character unless the preceding character is
> > a katakana character.
> Good to know there is expertise available on this list!
> I believe those line breaking rules are covered by the setting of
> 'line-break'. If you set that to 'strict', the browser is supposed to
> apply a set of "kinsoku" rules equivalent to (or at least similar to)
> those defined by JIS 4051, a Japanese standard for typography. That
> standard gives all the pairs of characters between which you are
> normally not allowed to break a line. (See the WD for more
> explanation).
> Do you think this strict/loose distinction is not enough?

I just think the WD might not have described it accurately.
But if the actual definition is to refer to a pre-existing
Japanese standard, then it should be fine.

> > - Second, layout-grid-char seems to duplicate letter-spacing. I
> > understand why you wouldn't want to use line-height instead
> > of layout-grid-line for spacing between lines, since line-height
> > implies a vertical dimension. However, letter-spacing doesn't
> > imply anything other than "between letters." It might be simpler
> > (for authors at least) to just redefine letter-spacing's behavior to
> > take the grid into account if layout-grid-mode is not set to "none."
> >
> > The layout-grid property would then be shorthand for
> > layout-grid-mode, layout-grid-type, layout-grid-line, and
> > letter-spacing.
> Letter-spacing indeed plays a role which is not explained in the
> draft. I am in fact wondering if it doesn't already do what
> layout-grid does, at least in the horizontal direction (or rather: in
> the direction of the letters).

Right. I think the only real difference would be fewer properties to

> The line spacing might be better handled by an extension to
> 'line-height', to allow designers to fix the line height and not allow
> it to grow arbitrarily because of tall inline elements. Although you
> are right that "height" seems to indicate something vertical...

This could get really confusing.

> I'm actually hoping that 'layout-grid-type' is not real. Or at least
> that we can do without.
> Between them, 'letter-spacing' and 'line-height' (maybe with a small
> addition) should then be able to completely replace the grid
> properties.

That would be very nice. Although I can't see how you would be
able to simulate "loose" and "strict" with just those two.

> The section on vertical text has disappeared from the draft for a
> major overhaul.
> But referring to the previous version: I'm not sure you can use a
> language selector. What language would you put on the "1996"? I
> probably would use CLASS="year" or something.

I was thinking "en", but I'm a little culturally biased :)

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Received on Thursday, 23 September 1999 00:16:00 UTC

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