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Re: Properties applicable to root?

From: John Whelan <whelan@itp.unibe.ch>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 04:03:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199810010803.KAA22941@itpserver>
To: todd@verso.com, www-style@w3.org, dbaron@fas.harvard.edu
Cc: dbaron@fas.harvard.edu
David Baron:

> The question of rendering the HEAD element is left
> somewhat open in the HTML 4.0 specs, but I tend to think it is not
> advisable.  The only renderable (not SCRIPT or STYLE elements) content
> of the HEAD element is usually the TITLE element.  (I can't think of
> anything else.)

LINK elements are rendered by Lynx (I guess that's appropriate :-) ),
depending on the REV or REL values.  It might also make sense to
render the META element in some circumstances.  But TITLE, LINK and
META would probably be rendered in some special browser-specific way,
outside of the flow of the document (e.g.  TITLE in the status bar,
LINK/META in a separate Document Info window), so it might be
difficult to specify that rendering by CSS.

Todd Fahrner:

> A future display
> type might present markup naked, too. This would expose such trivialities
> as the meta tags, the doctype, and even the stylesheet (actually, the
> stylesheet should display with existing display types: style { display:
> block; whitespace: pre } )
> . Or alternate stylesheets available. Does the typical user want this?
> Perhaps not now, but only geeks wanted desktop computers in 1975. Might the
> typical author? Absolutely. View Source on steroids, and standardized
> across browsers.

Note that this sort of thing would be less neccessary if Netscape's
definition of Document Structure were actually based on structural
elements and not just the location of images and forms.  (Sorry, pet
peeve.)

L. David Baron:

> >  I think the concept of a web page should
> >be as a document viewed within the browser, and what is outside the
> >browser should be irrelevant.

Tantek Celik:

> Well, rarely is the use of technology limited to either what the designers
> originally intended, or even what the audience originally intended.

> If you don't author style sheets to affect what is "outside" the BODY
> element, then say so in your user style sheet:

> HTML { float: none; display: block; position: static; top: auto; left: auto;
> bottom: auto; right: auto; width: auto; height: auto; overflow: auto }

Which is an argument for performing viewport manipulation with CSS
rather than JavaScript, since you can't "turn off" JavaScript features
in this way.  As it stands now, anyone who wants to avoid those stupid
GeoCities "and now a word from our sponsor" windows needs to turn off
JavaScript, which, in Netscape 4, also disables stylesheets.

					John T. Whelan
					whelan@iname.com
					http://www.slack.net/~whelan/
Received on Thursday, 1 October 1998 09:42:36 GMT

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