W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > August 1997

RE: Issue 4: Text-Indent and DIV

From: Chris Wilson (PSD) <cwilso@MICROSOFT.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:00:11 -0700
Message-ID: <41F7F4CE3CA2CF11BC5000805F14B2A9023AC007@RED-31-MSG.dns.microsoft.com>
To: "'Peter Fraterdeus'" <peterf@dol.com>, www-style@w3.org
As to the issue behind this - yes, text-indent should be inherited
according to the spec.  Sorry, it's not in IE.  FWIW ($0.00001 at your
local redemption center), I don't believe it should be, which is why
text-indent accumulates in IE3.

>Is it that the browser folks haven't read the specs, or just that they
>don't think it's important enough to the global intranet market
>buyers<
>to bother doing it right the first time?

Yes, I DO read the specs - in fact, I occasionally (like CSS1) help
develop them - but that doesn't mean that my implementation is perfect.
Sorry, we really are trying.  What would be most helpful is if when you
run across inconsistencies with the specification, you would report them
to us.  We have an IE bug-reporting page up on
http://www.microsoft.com/, or you can send
mailto:iexplore@microsoft.com.  These bug reports are filtered through
our testers and entered in our bug database, as well as being CC'ed
directly to some developers (I, for example, title-read all
iexplore@microsoft.com mail).  I know for a fact that stylesheet
bug-reporting to us is minimal - the number of inconsistencies with the
specification we uncover internally far outweighs any external bug
reports, by a ratio larger than 100 to 1.

There is a lot of sub-issues in the CSS specification - not, IMO, a
problem with the spec, just a reflection of the fact that there is a lot
of ground covered by it.  WRT 'doing it right the first time' - sorry,
I'd kind of hoped, when I first embarked on implementing CSS in IE3,
that the spec would get locked down and solidified before we shipped -
it didn't, until almost six months later.  I'd also hoped I would be
able to get more done - I didn't, primarily for reasons of medical leave
I had to take, but also due to other responsibilities.

And, incidentally, I DO make strategic decisions for our stylesheets
implementation - I don't make SHIPPING TIMELINE decisions, but I am
faced with participating in the decisions of which features and bug
fixes to cut.

	-Chris
Chris Wilson
cwilso@microsoft.com
***

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Peter Fraterdeus [SMTP:peterf@dol.com]
> Sent:	Sunday, August 03, 1997 6:16 PM
> To:	www-style@w3.org
> Subject:	Re: Issue 4: Text-Indent and DIV
> 
> At 11:39 AM -0700 8/3/97, David Perrell wrote:
> ...
> >The browsers are not treating text-indent as inherited, as the spec
> >clearly states they should. Worse, the text-indent of the parent DIV
> is
> >being applied to the child P even when the property has been
> explicitly
> >set on the child. This is just plain wrong. Worse yet, in NSN 4.01,
> >text indent is cumulative. The text-indent on the first line of the
> >first paragraph is the sum of the text-indent of DIV and P. This is
> >just plain abominable.
> >
> ...
> >
> >David Perrell
> 
> <opinion>
> 
> Geez, isn't there anybody that can stop these abominations (good word,
> David ;-) ???
> 
> I gave up trying to write a CSS chapter (in my upcoming opus) due to
> this absurdity.
> 
> Where's The Caped Crusader when we need him? How about a
> letter-to-the-editor campaign targeting the trade press, and putting
> some external pressure on the culprits?
> 
> As a visual designer and strategist for net communications, it seems
> to me that this is the equivalent of a ".*Script" interpreter taking
> liberties with my page descriptions. 
> No printer driver that could get away with such a thing. Imagine the
> person-years of wasted effort trying to hack around the weirdness in
> the browsers. It's a crime of cosmic proportions! Disgusting and evil.
> (if a small bit of hyperbole may be forgiven...)
> 
> Is it that the browser folks haven't read the specs, or just that they
> don't think it's important enough to the global intranet market
> >buyers< to bother doing it right the first time?
> 
> (Sorry, I know Chris Wilson's (Microsoft) paying attention, but he
> doesn't make the strategic decisions! Eh?)
> 
> </opinion>
> 
> PF
> 
> AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
> 
> Peter Fraterdeus, President designOnline, Inc. Alphabets, Inc.
>                   dezineCafe / http://www.dol.com      
>                  "Typography Survey" / www.design.org/typebook
>                   Join the dezine Digerati! 
>                               http://www.dol.com/Root/url.html
> 
> PGP PubKey at http://www.dol.com/~peterf/peter_fraterdeus.html
> 
Received on Monday, 4 August 1997 13:02:17 GMT

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