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Re: [text-decor-3] Emphasis marks and ruby

From: MURAKAMI Shinyu <murakami@antenna.co.jp>
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:33:54 +0900
To: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Cc: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>, CJK discussion <public-i18n-cjk@w3.org>, 'WWW International' <www-international@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20130202153353.F5C4.C598BCD7@antenna.co.jp>
>    * Koji has found examples where the dots are instead placed as
>      close as possible to the base text, so immediately above base
>      characters without ruby, above the ruby for characters that have it.

I think this behavior is much better than to hide ruby in many cases.

We (Antenna House) implemented this behavior by default and also 
implemented the -ah-text-emphasis-offset property that specifies 
minimum offset between emphasis dots and the base text.

I put an example:
http://nadita.com/test/ruby/ruby-kenten.html

The result rendered by Antenna House Formatter:
http://nadita.com/test/ruby/ruby-kenten-ahf.png


Regards,

Shinyu Murakami
Antenna House


fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote on 2013/02/02 10:19:21
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-text-decor-3-20130103/#emphasis-marks
> 
>    # If emphasis marks are drawn for characters for which ruby is drawn
>    # in the same position as the emphasis mark, the ruby should be
>    # stacked between the emphasis marks and the base text. In this case,
>    # the position of the emphasis marks for a given element should be
>    # determined as if all characters have ruby boxes of the same height
>    # as the highest ruby box in the element. If the UA is not capable of
>    # drawing ruby and emphasis marks on the same side, the UA may hide
>    # ruby and draw only emphasis marks.
> 
> See illustration at
>    http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-text-decor-3-20130103/text-emphasis-ruby.png
> 
> It's clear that when ruby and emphasis marks are drawn together, the
> ruby is closer to the base text. The interesting thing is what happens
> when a run of text is emphasized, but only some characters have ruby.
> The spec currently says that you place the emphasis dots at a consistent
> position, so if some of it has ruby then you position it accommodating
> the ruby. There are two problems with this:
> 
>    * text-emphasis is inherited, so technically you don't know which
>      element is the one setting the emphasis. (Practically speaking,
>      this is not a problem: you just look up the ancestor chain to
>      find the highest element with text emphasis set. Emphasis marks
>      generally don't--and in CSS actually cannot--stack.)
> 
>    * Koji has found examples where the dots are instead placed as
>      close as possible to the base text, so immediately above base
>      characters without ruby, above the ruby for characters that have it.
> 
> So, it's possible to implement the behavior in the spec right now
> and have that be reasonable, but it's possible that publications
> might want the as-close-as-possible behavior, and that's probably
> also easier to implement.
> 
> What should we have the spec say? What it currently says, with
> clarification of where to look for the "emphasizing element"?
> Or spec as-close-as-possible positioning? Or leave it undefined?
> 
> ~fantasai
Received on Saturday, 2 February 2013 06:34:12 GMT

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