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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2013-04-11

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 16:02:04 +0100
Message-ID: <51700AEC.60504@w3.org>
To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html




Text version follows:


  Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

11 Apr 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0005.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Norbert, aphillip, Richard, JcK, aharon, fsasaki

    Regrets
    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           aphillip

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]HTML longdesc
          5. [9]bidi
          6. [10]review radar
          7. [11]AOB?
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

Agenda

Action Items

    <r12a> [13]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

      [13] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    action-170: richard has ported document to respec

    <trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-170 Coordinate with richard
    regarding KLReq.

    action-170: and is close to html5
    ... sent to the Korean guys to fill in the Korean
    ... and enlisted three of the six authors
    ... a few questions in document
    ... need to know if will cover before review
    ... also whether to wait on korean version
    ... then will come to group looking for wide review

    close ACTION-200

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-200 Remind folks to review ITS item in
    the winter 388 email for next time (4 April).

    close ACTION-202

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-202 Say we're satisfied with
    storageSize in ITS 2.0.

Info Share

    <r12a> [14]https://www.w3.org/2013/06/ebooks/

      [14] https://www.w3.org/2013/06/ebooks/

    richard: announced conf on ebooks
    ... link above
    ... idea is to get people from diff. languages and scripts
    ... raise issues in HTML5 and CSS that underlie ebooks
    ... and prioritize, feed to IG that is proposed
    ... about ebooks in w3 technology

    norbert: plans to crash that party

    <r12a>
    [15]http://www.w3.org/blog/International/2013/04/03/indic-layou
    t-task-force-created/

      [15] 
http://www.w3.org/blog/International/2013/04/03/indic-layout-task-force-created/

    richard: created an indic layout task force
    ... had a few people join the list

    <r12a> [16]http://www.w3.org/International/groups/indic-layout/

      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/groups/indic-layout/

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: link indic TF's home page [recorded
    in [17]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-204 - Link indic TF's home page [on
    Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-18].

HTML longdesc

    <r12a> [18]http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/40

      [18] http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/40

    richard: read longdesc
    ... came up with two things
    ... one is editorial nit
    ... the other is that "invalid content" can be made available
    ... suggests that shouldn't be let off
    ... because it'll become confusing
    ... and de facto supported and would need stuf like bidi and
    language and other markup

    <aharon> I agree about non-url in longdesc

    richard: okay to send?

    norbert: first one non-WG?

    addison: agree

    norbert: second one yes

    addison: agree

    <scribe> chair: approve

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: send longdesc comment to HTML-WG
    [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-205 - Send longdesc comment to
    HTML-WG [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-18].

bidi

    <r12a>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation-ne
    w

      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation-new

    richard: working on wiki this week
    ... maybe discuss
    ... aharon gave me some text to use
    ... "do we still need isolate embeddings"
    ... aharon suggesting:

    <r12a> Unfortunately, existing bidi pages contain all sorts of
    bidi cruft that

    <r12a> > only works given the old embed semantics (and may not
    work in modern

    <r12a> > versions of Internet Explorer). This does not mean
    that embed semantics

    <r12a> > really are necessary. The desired outcome can still be
    obtained with

    <r12a> > isolate semantics, usually with simpler, clearer
    markup. Here are a

    <r12a> > couple of examples.

    richard: been downplaying problem, thinking not that large
    ... but solution A could break a lot of pages?
    ... is that not necessarily case?
    ... question for aharon
    ... also...
    ... if change semantics of @dir
    ... maybe add @isolate that is default on
    ... and use @isolate=no to turn off

    addison: breaks existing pages?

    aharon: mentioning as possibility
    ... not a new idea
    ... html came up with it
    ... but in opposite direction
    ... add @isolate=on to turn on
    ... need to dispose of idea, must deal with it
    ... not sure about the question?
    ... didn't intend to worry you :-)
    ... IE semantics changed
    ... is pages depend on this, got broke in IE
    ... so not so worried about it
    ... more concerned about different idea
    ... old embed semantics in some applications or cases
    ... might be a reason to use them
    ... wanted to explore
    ... concluded that it is not true

    norbert: embedding semantics were wrong all along?

    aharon: no, but pages that depend on them work better with
    isolate
    ... browsers no longer interop anyway

    norbert: not a problem for anybody?

    richard: two exmaples used are not affected on IE

    aharon: examples no longer work on IE
    ... if you load local page, it uses IE7 semantics
    ... if you load from web
    ... uses IE9 semantics

    richard: some things work better because of IE
    ... text made is sound like breaking huge number of pages
    ... maybe some but not desparately bad

    aharon: this is the para about bidi cruft?
    ... try to review that one

    richard: includes workarounds there
    ... <quotes page>

    <r12a> Here are a couple of examples of edge cases where
    authors have put workarounds in place that try to make embedded
    text behave like isolated text. This bidi cruft only works
    given the old embed semantics

    aharon: will reconsider para

    richard: still on track for solution A being preferred
    ... think it is best
    ... change semantics of @dir to make isolating

    aharon: agre

    JcK: agree

    <Najib-ma> I'm not hot to change semantic of @dir

    richard: means to reply to Najib's email

    aharon: I sent a reply, need to refresh memory of that

    norbert: last time mostly discussed B
    ... need to refresh

    <r12a>
    [21]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013M
    ar/0027.html

      [21] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Mar/0027.html

    aharon: once spec changes, FF, Chrome will rapidly update
    ... and IE is already incompatible and mostly isolates
    ... so this will improve interop
    ... for authors
    ... never explained and use of @dir *usage* doesn't really
    change
    ... use of LRM etc.

    [22]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013A
    pr/0000.html

      [22] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0000.html

    richard: gimme a day or so to finish up changes
    ... aharon to add some text
    ... will send to list
    ... suggesting a read-over

    <scribe> ACTION: richard: to announce bidi wiki to the member
    list for review next week with a goal of publishing for wide
    revew [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-206 - Announce to the member list for
    review next week with a goal of publishing for wide revew [on
    Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-18].

    aharon: wanted to update on an issue
    ... bug on html5
    ... dir=auto
    ... and human readable attributes
    ... like @title or @placeholder
    ... asked for a simple thing
    ... if element with @dir=auto
    ... that element's attributes will get direction of auto
    ... not from element
    ... and Hixie did in html-next

    addison: the default direction of UA
    ... think that's a bad idea
    ... make WG comment to say very bad idea?

    aharon: don't even understand motivation?

    <scribe> ACTION: addison: comment on default direction in UA
    bug for WG saying "bad idea" [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-207 - Comment on default direction in
    UA bug for WG saying "bad idea" [on Addison Phillips - due
    2013-04-18].

review radar

    [25]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar#Document_
    Shepherds

      [25] 
http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar#Document_Shepherds

    <scribe> new item: API for Media Resources (shepherd addison)

    norbert: saw comments on IME on WebApps

    <r12a>
    [26]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/default/use-cases/O
    verview.html

      [26] 
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/default/use-cases/Overview.html

    norbert: saw tpac discussion but haven't seen anything since
    ... last change in repo was 3 april

    addison: keep an eye out for FPWD

AOB?

    richard: should do soon...
    ... some things we are working on and some things hope to do
    later
    ... like to do general status update

    addison: seems reasonable
    ... update a page with stuff in the pipeline

    richard: that's more documents than projects

    <scribe> ACTION: addison: set up project radar page to track
    projects we are working on [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Set up project radar page to
    track projects we are working on [on Addison Phillips - due
    2013-04-18].

    <r12a> [28]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Pipeline

      [28] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Pipeline

    richard: good idea to use pipeline page instead of having a
    third page

    <fsasaki>
    [29]http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-its20-20130411/#unresolved-iss
    ues

      [29] http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-its20-20130411/#unresolved-issues

    felix: mention one issue
    ... published ITS draft will all issue
    ... some are open
    ... removed ruby section
    ... not finalized, but would like to close by end of april
    ... please include next week

    addison: will add to agenda for next week

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison: comment on default direction in UA bug
    for WG saying "bad idea" [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: addison: set up project radar page to track
    projects we are working on [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: link indic TF's home page [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: send longdesc comment to HTML-WG
    [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: to announce bidi wiki to the member list
    for review next week with a goal of publishing for wide revew
    [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]




-- 
Richard Ishida, W3C
http://rishida.net/
Received on Thursday, 18 April 2013 15:02:33 UTC

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