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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2013-04-18

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 18:03:20 +0100
Message-ID: <51702758.6020800@w3.org>
To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html




Text version follows:


Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

18 Apr 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0029.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Addison, Richard, Norbert, Mati, Aharon, David, JohnK,
           John_Daggett_(guest)

    Regrets
           Felix

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           David

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]CSS-Font case sensitivity (guest John Daggett)
          5. [9]TPAC
          6. [10]Routing feedback to winter list
          7. [11]Korean Layout Requirements move to wide review
          8. [12]Bidi Topics
          9. [13]AOB?
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

Action Items

    <r12a> [15]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

      [15] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

    <addison> close ACTION-170

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-170 Coordinate with richard regarding
    KLReq.

    Action 150 publication soon

    <trackbot> Error finding '150'. You can review and register
    nicknames at <[16]http://www.w3.org/International/track/users>.

      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/users%3E.

    <addison> close ACTION-198

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-198 Write back to CSS-fonts about
    casefolding and normalization, allowing both with health
    warning (see minutes).

    <addison> close ACTION-199

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-199 Seek clarification on
    [:Whitespace:].

    <addison> close ACTION-205

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-205 Send longdesc comment to HTML-WG.

    <addison> close ACTION-206

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-206 Announce to the member list for
    review next week with a goal of publishing for wide revew.

    <addison> close ACTION-207

    <trackbot> Closed ACTION-207 Comment on default direction in UA
    bug for WG saying "bad idea".

    <addison>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar

      [17] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar

Info Share

    Addison: no content yet, but some due

    InfoShare

    r12a: New "before" and "after" replacements may be "start" and
    "end" for CSS
    ... May work, but ruby positioning inline or bopomofo "end" may
    need watching

CSS-Font case sensitivity (guest John Daggett)

    r12a: Tokyo workshop looking for papers

    <addison>
    [18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013A
    pr/0030.html

      [18] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0030.html

    addison: J Daggett guest here to discuss.
    ... proposal was that font name matching should be normalise
    C+F insensitve case - some implementers are unhappy, but
    normalisation unlikely to be real problem.

    JDaggett: Case insensitivity in unicode is awkward. in CSS only
    existing insensitivity is ASCII identifiers
    ... Font names are not localised as families, normally.
    ... CJK font name matching is troublesome, as it takes into
    account Locale

    JDagget: e.g. Japanese font designer gets correct name but
    other users don't

    JDaggett: Downloadable fonts are named completely up to the
    author in @fontface

    Addison: Agrees with where CSS is now, but was secretly case
    insensitive

    <jdaggett>
    [19]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-fonts/#font-family-casing

      [19] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-fonts/#font-family-casing

    Addison: Agree that if using Unicode case insensitivity should
    use the same algorithm, C+F without normalisation but watch out
    for combining marks, with caveats
    ... caseless unicode matching is not complex.

    JDaggett: Issue asking I18n WG, would like to settle on one
    method of case insensitive matching if performed.

    Addison: Generally perform better as C+F but buffer allocation
    on case fold needs care, but it does anyway for UTF-8.

    JDaggett: 99% of the time the ASCII would fold OK, and CJK
    wouldn't fold anyway.

    Addison: No normalisation sensitive names will occur.

    r12a: Actual font names can be case folded without
    normalisation

    JDagget: as in version 5.1 of spec
    ... This matching should be used in general case, not just for
    font names.

    r12a: Do user defined names become case insensitive?

    JDaggett: Not for font familly names.

    Addison: If CSS adds other case insensitive matching, it should
    follow the same pattern (C+F without normalisation)

    r12a: As long they promise never to do it, I'm happy if they do
    it!

    <addison> john: two resolutions I'd like to see

    <addison> 1. C+F is preferred to C+S

    <addison> 2. okay with no normalization

    +1

    <addison> addison: agree with both

    addison: One could compose a normative sensitive font name, but
    it would be bad for other reasons too.

    John: Font designers are avoiding unicode names at present.

    Addison: If this changes, font selection may be very difficult
    in other contexts

    <addison> richard: okay

    <addison> david: okay

    <addison> JcK: seems rational

    <addison> ... not expressing happiness

    JcK: matching options are expanding, but this seems rational

    <addison> ACTION: addison: write back to CSS about font case
    sensitivity matching and remove normalization (cf two
    resolutions in minutes) [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Write back to CSS about font
    case sensitivity matching and remove normalization (cf two
    resolutions in minutes) [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-04-25].

TPAC

    <addison> richard: see the WBS request?

    <addison> addison: will search it

    Richard: TPAC will be in China. Dates have been brought closer

    <addison> Nov 11 - 15

    <addison> ACTION: addison: ensure TPAC WBS form is filed for
    i18n [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Ensure TPAC WBS form is filed
    for i18n [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-04-25].

Routing feedback to winter list

    <addison>
    [22]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013A
    pr/0025.html

      [22] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0025.html

    r12a: GEO feedback list receives comment form infomration, but
    few people see them. Fewer respond to them.
    ... We do get some spam, but could forward mails to the winter
    list.
    ... Would need to reword, notice to say, "comments will be
    public" and lose anonymity, which is better.

    <addison> ACTION: richard: make wording changes and implement
    decision to send future feedback to winter list [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Make wording changes and
    implement decision to send future feedback to winter list [on
    Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-25].

Korean Layout Requirements move to wide review

    <addison> richard: awaiting korean translation, norbert sent
    some comments

    <addison> ... want group to say "put this out as FPWD"

    <addison> addison: support

    <addison> norbert: good to get more feedback

    No opposition

    <r12a> ok to publish

    <addison> ok to publish

    OK to go ahead

    <Norbert> ok

    <aharon> yup.

    <aharon> no opposition.

    <JcK> No objection... i.e., support

    <addison> chair: WG resolution: approved Korean Layout
    Requirements to publish as FPWD

    <addison> ACTION: richard: prepare KLReq for FPWD and usher
    through publication process [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-212 - Prepare KLReq for FPWD and
    usher through publication process [on Richard Ishida - due
    2013-04-25].

Bidi Topics

    addison: there are a number of bidi topics

    <addison> Guidance about bidi authoring materials:
    [25]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013A
    pr/0018.html

      [25] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0018.html

    r12a: Looking for bidi recomendations to be published, after
    lots of work

    <addison>
    [26]http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/qa
    -html-dir

      [26] 
http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/qa-html-dir

    <addison>
    [27]http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/Ov
    erview-inline

      [27] 
http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/Overview-inline

    <addison>
    [28]http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/qa
    -visual-vs-logical

      [28] 
http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/qa-visual-vs-logical

    <addison>
    [29]http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/Ov
    erview

      [29] http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/Overview

    r12a: would like them ot go live, since we've already done wide
    review

    Aharon: Go live!

    <matial> ok

    <matial> ok

    OK

    <addison> ACTION: richard: publish four bidi tutorials
    [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-213 - Publish four bidi tutorials [on
    Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-25].

    <r12a>
    [31]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation

      [31] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation

    <addison> Next Steps in @dir isolation:
    [32]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013A
    pr/0019.html

      [32] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0019.html

    r12a: Write up for inheriting isolation in HTML5

    <r12a>
    [33]http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation

      [33] http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation

    r12a: Proposals for how to get isolation into HTML 5, Comments
    received from Aharon and John. If these are addressed can it go
    to wide review?

    <r12a> aharon: yes

    <matial> yes

    <JcK> yes, definitely

    yes, go with proposal A

    <addison> ACTION: richard: publish html-bidi-isolation proposal
    for wide review [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-214 - Publish html-bidi-isolation
    proposal for wide review [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-25].

    <addison> agenda

    Addison: Any HTML5 actions for this meeting?

    <JcK> On bidi, there are a few others I'd like to circulate the
    drafts to (the IETF IDNA bidi team). Would that be ok at this
    stage?

    <addison> ACTION: addison: double-check that all .prep items
    are gone to html5 [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-215 - Double-check that all .prep
    items are gone to html5 [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-04-25].

    Addison: We want wide review now, so comments can be addressed.

AOB?

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison: double-check that all .prep items are
    gone to html5 [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: addison: ensure TPAC WBS form is filed for i18n
    [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: addison: write back to CSS about font case
    sensitivity matching and remove normalization (cf two
    resolutions in minutes) [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: make wording changes and implement
    decision to send future feedback to winter list [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: prepare KLReq for FPWD and usher through
    publication process [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: publish four bidi tutorials [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard: publish html-bidi-isolation proposal for
    wide review [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

    [End of minutes]

-- 
Richard Ishida, W3C
http://rishida.net/
Received on Thursday, 18 April 2013 17:03:53 UTC

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