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RE: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:00:00 -0000
To: "'CE Whitehead'" <cewcathar@hotmail.com>, <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00ed01ca6d49$16565fc0$43031f40$@org>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CE Whitehead [mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 12 October 2009 19:53
> To: ishida@w3.org; www-international@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, I've read all but the last two sections (on private use and grandfathered
> subtags) of "Choosing a Language Tag"
> 
> ( http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-choosing-language-tags);
> 
> most of my comments are on the English, although a few are on content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?", par 4
> (ORDER/ORGANIZATION)
> 
> 
> 
> "Particular thanks are due to Addison Phillips and Mark Davis, authors of BCP
> 47, for help in producing this article."
> 
> 
> 
> { COMMENT: this is not really part of the answer to the above question
> although Mark Davis and Addison Phillips have worked hard on BP 47;
> If Mark and Addison have worked hard on the whole article, this should be
> moved to near the top of the article, immediately following the opening
> paragraph, and before the first question is presented!}
> 
> 
> 
> Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?" par 7, last sentence
> (ENGLISH)
> 
> 

Moved it rather than tried to explain why I put it there.


> 
> "Your search will have matched against the Description field. Check that the
> type of this record is language. What you are looking for is the value in the
> Subtag field, ie. fr."
> 
> 
> { COMMENT: I would have liked to have seen at least single quotation marks
> around 'fr'.

I prefer to keep with the current approach, used throughout the article.

> Also, is it clear from the last sentence that 'fr' is going to be used in the
> language tag??

I think it is, if you read the earlier text.

> >= "The language tag is formed using the value in the subtag field, which is
> 'fr'."
> }
> 
> 
> 
> Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?", par 8, sentence 1
> (ENGLISH)
> 
> 
> 
> "The rest of this article will provide advice for choosing primary language
> and possibly other types of subtag. Note that not all the decisions about how
> to create a language tag are straightforward. There are circumstances where
> usage will dictate which of various possibilities you should follow."
> 
> 
> 
> { COMMENT: Because there may be more than one subtag following the
> primary language subtag in a language tag, I think "subtags" should be
> plural;
> also I think that "primary language subtag" might benefit from a definite
> article since there is one primary language subtag"--thus it is in some sense
> specific
> 
> 
> >=
> "The rest of this article will provide advice for choosing the primary language
> and possibly other types of subtags."
> }

Changed to
The rest of this article will provide advice for choosing primary language subtags and, where needed, other types of subtag.

> 
> 
> 
> Answer to Question at top, "Which language tag is . . . ?", par 9 CONTENT
> 
> 
> "There are tools available which provide additional help while searching the
> registry, such as Richard Ishida's Language Subtag Lookup tool."
> 
> 
> {COMMENT: this could be more specific (we just discussed these at ietf-
> languages):
> 
> 
> 
> for example,
> 
> >= "There are tools which search through a copy of the registry for a
> particular description, etc. . . . "
> 
> You might even go on to say, "a reasonably up-to-date copy of the
> registry. . ."

My tool provides more help than just searching for a particular description

> 
> }
> 
> 
> * * *
> Decision 1, par 2, first bullet CONTENT
> 
> 
> 
> "'Often it is not clear which language identifier to use. For example, what
> most people call Punjabi in Pakistan actually has the code 'lah', and formal
> name 'Lahnda'.'"
> 
> 
> 
> {COMMENTS:
> ??? As you note in your utlity
> http://rishida.net/utils/subtags/index.php?find=&lookup=lah&submit=Look+
> up&list=0&check=
> 
> 'lah' (lahnda) is a macrolanguage and punjabi as used in Pakistan can get a
> more specific subtag!
> ?? or am I confused; lahnda is used widely and not just in Pakistan; punjabi or
> western panjabi is only used in Pakistan; several other varieties of lahnda are
> used in Pakistan however but these are not called Punjabi? So is this the best
> example??
> 
> Another example might be Persian-Farsi-Dari: if you search for 'Persian,' you
> want a specific language subtag, 'pes' probably (identified/described as
> 'farsi'; I once thought that 'Western Persian' was going to be added as a
> second description field for 'pes' but I guess this is a can of worms right now
> and has already been discussed to the fullest extent possible at ietf-
> languages.; see:
> 
> http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2008-
> December/008715.html
> 
> }
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> 
> Decision 1, par 2, first bullet, par 2 ENGLISH
> 
> 
> "You could look up language information in the SIL Ethnologue and cross-
> referencing with Wikipedia.
> 
> 
> { COMMENTS:
> ??? "cross-referencing" has no direct object here but should normally take
> one; also it's not even clear whether it's the audience of this sentence
> or SIL Ethnologue who will be doing the cross-referencing (that is the subject
> antecedent is not clear)
> perhaps because the two verbs ("look up" and "cross-referencing") are not
> syntactically parallel--which they should be if 'you' is the subject for both!
> >= "You could look up language information in the SIL Ethnologue and
> cross-reference it with information in Wikipedia."
> }
> 

Fixed.

> 
> 
> Decision 1, par 2, second bullet, par 2 PUNCTUATION
> 
> 
> 
> "For example, ku (Kurdish) is a macrolanguage that encompasses ckb
> (Central Kurdish), kmr (Northern Kurdish), and sdh (Southern Kurdish),"
> 
> 
> 
> { COMMENT:
> 
> There should be a full-stop, and not a comma, at the end of the above
> paragraph.
> }
> 

Fixed.

> 
> 
> Decision 1, par 2, third bullet, par 2 ENGLISH
> 
> 
> 
> "You should look for a more specific subtag for the language you are
> wanting to use. Unfortunately, the registry doesn't provide any pointers for
> this."
> 
> 
> { COMMENT: Awkward; why "you are wanting"? Why not just ""you wish"?
> Also "use" sound vague to me; I prefer "specify" here. Also, what "registry"?
> Do you mean "the language subtag registry"/BP 47 or do you mean this Q&A
> article?

?? This article isn't a registry?

> 
> 
> 
> >= "You should look for a more specific subtag for the language you wish to
> specify. Unfortunately, this registry {???this article??? the language subtag
> registry???} does not provide any pointers for doing so."
> }

Changed to
You should look for a more specific subtag for the language you are interested in

> 
> 
> 
> * * *
> 
> 
> 
> Decision 5, par 4, first bullet, par 2 ENGLISH
> 
> 
> 
> "If you have a good reason, you could use a variant subtag with different
> subtags, eg. cmn-Latn-pinyin would be a legal to say Mandarin Chinese
> written with pinyin."
> 
> 
> { COMMENT: ?? "would be a legal to say ???" Where is the noun that must
> follow an article such as 'a'?? I only see an adjective, 'legal;'
> I suppose you mean 'legal way'??
> 
> >= "would be a legal {or proper??} way to indicate Mandarin Chinese content
> written using the pinyin romanization system."
> 
> 
> Hope I did not get too wordy.
> }

Fixed.


> 
> 
> Decision 5, par 4, first bullet, par 3 ENGLISH
> 
> 
> 
> "Although zh, bo and Latn are specified, this is a minimum requirement. It is
> also possible to include other subtags, such as a region subtag, in the
> language tag (where appropriate), eg. zh-Latn-TW-pinyin."
> 
> 
> 
> { COMMENT for clarity, I'd say (even though you may feel you have said this
> above),
> "Although either zh or bo followed by Latn are specified . .>"
> }

I'd rather leave as is.



Thank you.
RI

> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> C. E. Whitehead
> 
> cewcathar@hotmail.com
> 
> > From: ishida@w3.org
> > To: www-international@w3.org
> > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 19:25:29 +0100
> > Subject: Article for wide review: Choosing a language tag
> >
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-choosing-language-tags
> >
> >
> > Comments are being sought on this article prior to final release. Please
> send any comments to www-international@w3.org (subscribe). We expect to
> publish a final version in one to two weeks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ============
> > Richard Ishida
> > Internationalization Lead
> > W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/International/
> > http://rishida.net/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Received on Tuesday, 24 November 2009 21:00:36 GMT

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