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Re: non really unicode- Need your help to collect LC_STOCK_COLOR

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 19:59:56 +0900
Message-ID: <op.sxwwt6qvx1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec>
To: "www-international@w3.org" <www-international@w3.org>

This message is from Philippe Verdy, I only forward it to this list.

-- Felix

------- Forwarded message -------
From: "Philippe Verdy" <verdy.philippe@wanadoo.fr>
To: "Frank Yung-Fong Tang" <franktang@gmail.com>, "Unicode Mailing List"  
<unicode@unicode.org>, "WWW International" <www-international@w3.org>
Cc:
Subject: [Moderator Action] Re: non really unicode- Need your help to  
collect LC_STOCK_COLOR
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 19:52:35 +0900



Certainly not an issue of the Unicode standard itself, but such data may
eventually be part of the CLDR database (hosted by Unicode). I would also
suggest that the abence of color in a locale (or the definition of such  
data
in the root locale should be "default", meaning that a sign must be  
provided
for numeric values. The color may also be used for displaying other data
than just numeric values like quotes, ratings and exams notes (for example
quality adjectives, or the anglosaxon A through F levels).

In addition, a third color should be necessary for flat rates (unchanged or
insignificant change, with a minimum positive threshold that can be
determined by the site): this is needed to make sure that it will contrast
with the two other colors.

These colors should be virtual (i.e. treated as symbolic names), not
absolute (meaning something other than just a RGB color, for example a
shading pattern for monochrome devices). An application may use variations
of the same color (for example with varying hue, to exhibit the strongest
changes). The color symbolic value may also be used to select icons with  
the
appropriate color (such as arrows, triangles or angles).

As an interesting extension, may be, the meaning of the geometric  
directions
up and down, may be eventually different from the concept of high and low
amounts in some languages (higher or better may be the right direction and
lower or worse may be the left direction, and the third color could also
mean average).

Note that the concept stored in the locale data (which is not only color)
could be different than just up and down, it could be also good and bad,
where good is actually small, and bad is high, for something else than just
stock quotes.

This would imply further study...

Note: by the way, I think that almost all Europe (at least Western Europe,
including DE, GB, FR, CH, IT, ES, PT, NL, BE, LU, IE) uses +Red and -Green
like in US.

And the direction is up and down for all major official European languages.

Note that this last remark may not be true for some regional European
languages. For example in Breton and probably in other Celtic languages,
upper is East or right and lower is West or left, like the sun movements in
the sky. So the icon used may be an arc of circle with a pointing arrow, or
a straight oblique arrow which ends like such arrow, or may be an arrow  
with
an oblique radius, for example / for up and \ for down).

The direction of the arrow may also depend of the directionality of the
script used to write some languages (just think about the direction of the
arrow or symbols like < and > (or << and >>, or « and », or ‹ and › ) to
include on GUI buttons like Next and Previous. When the symbol is encoded  
as
part of the text label of the button, it should behave according to the
directionality of the text (or the directionality applied to the interface,
so the Unicode "mirorred" property may (and should) be used for that
purpose. The interface should also be built according to the main
directionality of the locale (the first button is not necessarily the
leftmost one), so buttons may need visual reordering (for example this
locale-sensitive behavior is implemented in Swing since Java 1.4 within its
container components).

Philippe.

> Frank Yung-Fong Tang sent on Friday, September 30, 2005 6:05 AM:
>
> BTW, it will be also nice, if you can include 1-3 URL of stock site  
> which demostrate the use of the color in that region.
> -----
>> 2005/9/30, Frank Yung-Fong Tang < franktang@gmail.com>:
>> This is not really an unicode issue, but i18n issue.
>>
>> For a long time, we all know the semantic of COLOR is an localization  
>> issue, but I recently encounter an interesting one.
>> I found the COLOR used to mark the up and down of stock price is quite  
>> different between west and east
>>
>> For example, most of the US web site use green for increase + and red  
>> for decrease -
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=YHOO
>>
>> But Taiwan and China use opposite color- red for increase + and green  
>> for decrease -
>> (yea, in Taiwan, the bull market is literally 'red market' :) Red is  
>> good and luck :) ) That make sense right.
>> and the expression "All the market is very very green" mean "stock  
>> market crash" in Taiwan.
>>
>> I also found Korean use red for increase + and blue for decrease -
>> http://kr.finance.yahoo.com/
>>
>> In the other hand http://quote.yahoo.co.jp/ use black for  increase  
>> + and red for decrease -
>>
>> I think it will be nice to collect the color data for locale :)  
>> Hopefully you can help
>>
>> Here is how it work.
>>
>> For each country/region in  
>> http://userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/diverse/doc/ISO_3166.html , I would  
>> like to collect
>>   plus=
>>   minus=
>>
>> For example,
> >   US: pos=green neg=red
> >   JP: pos=black neg=red
> >   TW: pos=red neg=green
> >   CN: pos=red neg=green
> >   KR: pos=red neg=blue
> >
> > Please indicate the ISO 3166 country code and send it to >  
> FrankTang@gmail.com and make sure you put "LC_STOCK_COLOR" in the >  
> subject.
> >
> > And If I can collect more than 80 countries/regions in one month (by  
> end > of Oct 2005), then I will draft a LC_STOCK_COLOR proposal and  
> submit it > to CLDR
> >
> > Can you help me out or find someone to help me out.
> > When you submit your information to me, it will be nice if you can  
> state > the quality of your understanding in term of confidence
> >
> > Confidence= Sure, Probably, Guess
> >
> > Thanks. And spam the right newsgroup for me please, :)
> -- Frank Yung-Fong Tang   譚永鋒
> Îñţérñåţîöñåļîžåţîöñ
>
> FrankTang@gmail.com
> Skype: FrankYungFongTang
> Yahoo IM: FrankYungFongTan
> MSN IM: FrankYungFongTang@hotmail.com
Received on Friday, 30 September 2005 11:00:28 GMT

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