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RE: The fate of Hebrew texts with Hyphen-Minus instead of Maqaf

From: <bidi@prognathous.mail-central.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:45:28 +0200
To: www-international@w3.org
Message-Id: <20030915194528.C49A177DDA@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

I'd like to wrap this up.

My understanding is that the Unicode BiDi Algorithm does not provide a
solution for rendering of *existing* Hebrew texts that include sequences
of HebrewLetter+HyphenMinus+Number, nor does it provide a solution for
entry of such sequences with current systems that do not map the Hebrew
Punctuation Maqaf to the keyboard.

Any objections to the above conclusion?

Prog.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:18:04 +0200,
bidi@prognathous.mail-central.com said:
>
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:27:31 +0200, "Jony Rosenne"
> <rosennej@qsm.co.il> said:
> > For Hebrew, the Maqaf should be used.
>
> I fully agree that the Maqaf should be used. In fact, I actually
> created a customized Hebrew keymap that replaces the non-numpad
> Hyphen-Minus with the Maqaf, and this is what I use when writing
> Hebrew, but... there are massive amounts of *existing* texts that use
> Hyphen-Minus instead (virtually all of them). What will be their fate?
> "are they doomed forever to render wrongly under applications that use
> the Unicode BiDi algorithm?"
>
> > Handling the change and the conversion has not been seriously tackled
> > in any major environment.
>
> I'm working on it, but there are currently several obstacles that
> complicate this campaign:
> 1. Badly rendered Maqaf glyphs in most common fonts (it's usually too
>    high). http://exego.net/forums/showMessage.asp?i=9320&qs=
> 2. The Maqaf and some other punctuation marks are not included in the
>    Israeli Keyboard Layout Standard (SI-1452). This may hopefully
>    change, but it takes time to convince everyone on TC-2109 that
>    adding these marks would be a worthwhile move.
> 3. It may not be easy to educate users to accept and use the correct
>    Hebrew punctuation marks, instead of foreign ones.
> 4. Data integrity issues have to be taken into consideration (e.g.
>    searching Hebrew texts for Maqaf/Minus, Geresh/Apostrophe, and
>    Gershaim/Quotes)
>
> All of these points are important and once solved, would mean that the
> Maqaf could be a viable solution, but the fate of existing texts is
> just as important (and is the main subject of this thread).
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Prog.
>
>
> >
> > Jony
> >
> > > -----Original Message----- From: www-international-request@w3.org
> > > [mailto:www-international-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
> > > bidi@prognathous.mail-central.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003
> > > 12:23 AM To: www-international@w3.org Subject: The fate of Hebrew
> > >    texts with Hyphen-Minus instead of Maqaf
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the sake of the argument, let's assume that Hebrew Punctuation
> > > Maqaf is now part of the official keyboard layout; that it is
> > > implemented well (both in fonts and keymap) in all major operating
> > > systems; and that users of Hebrew accept the new addition and start
> > > to use it from then on. What will be the fate of all Hebrew texts
> > > that used Hyphen-Minus instead? are they doomed forever to render
> > > wrongly under applications that use the Unicode BiDi algorithm? by
> > > wrong, I strictly refer to the way the original authors intended
> > > them to render.
> > >
> > > Further discussion about this problem can be found here:
> > > > http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73251#c32
> > >
> > > Prog.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Received on Monday, 15 September 2003 15:46:31 GMT

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