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RE: Localized Web Advertising & IP tracking (was Re: bilingual websites)

From: Barry Caplan <bcaplan@i18n.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:32:55 -0700
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031092234.0c303420@i18n.com>
To: <www-international@w3.org>
Thierry-

Wow - I coined a word that might catch on - early memes in action?


Carl -

Knowing the location of someone at least narrows down the types of 
questions you can ask. then you gather other types of information to narrow 
it further, such as previous actions. Or you could just take a guess. E.g. 
if I know someone is in Canada, I could server French/English at random  in 
proportion to the known ration of speakers. I would have a much better 
chance of getting it right than if I picked at random form say, all the 
known languages of the world, or even the top 10.

Of course there will be a lot of wrong guesses with this scheme, I am sure 
you can figure out how to refine it from there :)

Also, in some cases, it may not be a language issue - e.g. when Tex 
travels, and sends email before he turns in at the hotel, he probably wants 
his favorite portal to display tomorrow's weather *where he is*, not where 
he lives.

Imagine the value to folks like Yahoo if, say, someone logs in from Las 
Vegas, and they know they usually log in from Nebraska, and they were able 
to make sure *all* the banners were Las Vegas tourist related during that 
session.  In the worst case (outlined by Lenny yesterday) they would not be 
able to tell where they are...and they can fall back on generic ads. But 
most of the time they would and what they serve would be sold at a hefty 
premium.

Barry

At 06:27 AM 10/31/2001 -0800, Carl W. Brown wrote:
>Thierry,
>
>Chris' web site is a perfect example of why geolocation does not work.  His
>site primarily supports people living in Wales.  Welsh or English is a
>personal selection.  Likewise you could not determine if you should provide
>French for someone living in Canada, Belgium, or Switzerland.
>
>Carl
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: www-international-request@w3.org
> > [mailto:www-international-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Thierry Sourbier
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:25 AM
> > To: www-international@w3.org
> > Subject: Localized Web Advertising & IP tracking (was Re: bilingual
> > websites)
> >
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > > And you accept language is fr, en right?
> >
> > Right now, it says "zh" just to defy logic :)). I told you, I'm beyond
> > recovery point :))).
> >
> > > Yes, that is a good summary. In my case, i found that i got a lot of
> > > french-targetted adverts on web pages when I just *added* French; I
> > > needed to add English (en-gb) as well as en to get them to believe me
> > > ;-)
> >
> > Well, with my messed up browser I still get adds in French adds
> > when I read
> > the NY times or go to some major US portals. How is that possible?
> >
> > While finding someone's location based on his/her IP address has been
> > something traditionnaly difficult/impossible, it seems like some
> > folks like
> > Akamai have now the capability to offer some IP tracking system
> > to pin point a user geographical location. I'm betting this is what is
> > used (instead of the HTTP request parameters). I'll be interested
> > if anyone
> > as further info on the subject!
> >
> > Notes on IP tracking: http://www.private.org.il/IP2geo.html
> > Akamai product: http://www.akamai.com/html/en/sv/content_targeting.html
> >
> > It seems also that www.altavista.com brings me directly to the French page
> > without
> > using the HTTP header at all. Again I bet that IP tracking is in use, if
> > anyone has another explaination I'll be interested in that too.
> >
> > For non-US surfers, a simple way to *fake* a US IP address is to use
> > www.anonymiser.com.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > T.
> >
> > PS: I tried to find an example of site with localized ads but did not have
> > any luck today. I'm just working from memory.
> > PPS: I'm not linked or getting paid by Akamai, if you know of other
> > companies
> > offering the same thing let me/us know as well :).
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Lilley" <chris@w3.org>
> > To: "Thierry Sourbier" <webmaster@i18ngurus.com>
> > Cc: <www-international@w3.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: bilingual websites
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thierry Sourbier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If your primary language was Welsh and a browser was available in
> > Welsh,
> > > > > what would *you* pick?
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Chris, you picked the wrong person, my primary language
> > is French
> > and
> > > > I use an English browser :).
> > >
> > > And you accept language is fr, en right?
> > >
> > > > I would agree that most French people would
> > > > pick a French browser because most softwares (including the OSs) are
> > > > available in French.
> > >
> > > Well, I live in France, use a US Operating system set to English but
> > > with French currency and dates (and my accept language is en-gb, en,
> > > fr).
> > >
> > > > Now, correct me if I'm wrong but:
> > > > * I do not believe there is either a Welsh version of Windows
> > or Mac OS.
> > >
> > > Why would there need to be? But yes, I just checked the regional
> > > settings on Windows XP and, in the list of languages, no Welsh.
> > >
> > > > * Most softwares are not available in Welsh.
> > >
> > > Correct. Some Web content is, though.
> > >
> > > > * The vast majority (>90%) of Welsh speaker are bilingual English +
> > Welsh.
> > >
> > > Yes, although it depends on their preferred language as wel as what they
> > > speak. For example, I suspect you would trather read material in French
> > > than in English assuming tghe exact same content with the same
> > > last-modify date was available in both languages?
> > >
> > > > Hence my assumption that, just as the rest of their softwares, most
> > Welsh
> > > > users are probably using an English browsers. That may be an
> > assumption
> > that
> > > > Christopher Williams can verify just by checking is web log :).
> > > >
> > > > The point is that the browser preference is not totally reliable if it
> > > > indicates English but should be reliable if it says Welsh.
> > >
> > > Yes, that is a good summary. In my case, i found that i got a lot of
> > > french-targetted adverts on web pages when I just *added* French; I
> > > needed to add English (en-gb) as well as en to get them to believe me
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Received on Wednesday, 31 October 2001 12:34:05 GMT

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