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Re: Complex Table Examples (was: Re: "Pave The Cowpaths" Design Principle)

From: Lachlan Hunt <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 05:33:04 +1000
Message-ID: <46461670.8010704@lachy.id.au>
To: "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>
CC: www-html@w3.org

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Lachlan Hunt wrote:
>> It would be really helpful if some real world example tables, which 
>> either already use, or would benefit from the use of, headers 
>> attributes, could be presented as evidence to support your case.  We 
>> can then evaluate whether or not headers attributes really are needed, 
>> or if those cases could be handled with a better algorithm.
> 
> Because there are infinite variations of complex tables, I think no 
> algorithm CAN be constructed that copes with all cases. I'd throw this 
> back at you and say: can you provide evidence of an algorithm that can 
> handle all possible cases of complex tables?

This just looks like you're trying to avoid my question, which won't get 
us anywhere.  I'm not making a claim one way or the other, I just want 
to see some real world examples.

> Even if I gather 100 complex tables, and you could suggest an algorithm to 
> handle those, you can rest assured that there will be the 101st case that 
> breaks the mold.

Sorry, arguing for a feature because it might be needed in theory isn't 
good enough.  It may turn out that the 101st case is so complex that it 
would never occur in reality, or it may not.  We don't know yet.  Let's 
try to keep this discussion based in reality and actually look at the 
evidence.

Regardless of whether or not it's possible to cover 100% of all cases 
without the headers attribute, having the evidence will at least allow 
us to evaluate the effectiveness of any algorithm and help us come up 
with one that can handle as many cases as possible.

>> http://lachy.id.au/dev/2007/table-headers
> 
> Not seen that sort of thing in the wild (as even to a sighted user this 
> isn't immediately obvious), ...

Yeah, I somewhat agree, but that's what the designer came up with.

-- 
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
Received on Saturday, 12 May 2007 19:33:20 GMT

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