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Re: tag for notion and compound indication

From: <acc10-2005-67@gmx.de>
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:37:36 +0200 (MEST)
To: www-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <14428.1123587456@www26.gmx.net>

Dear Al Gilman and all the others,

thanks a lot for the many help and the discussion, that improved my
knowledge and point of view.

Now I see, there is some work in the pipe, especially among the RDF-based
SKOS-work. 

http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-swbp-skos-core-guide-20050510 

Dervied from their suggestions, I would have to implement my
"Bundesregierung"-example maybe this way:

<skos:Concept>
 <skos:prefLabel>Bundesregierung</skos:prefLabel>
 <skos:altLabel>Regierung, Bundes-</skos:prefLabel>
</skos:Concept>

Or is it the wrong purpose and I should use the hiddenLabel for my indexing
purpose only? Maybe prefLabel is only intented for synonyms that can replace
the preffered label in textflow (like "Bundes-Regierung" would, but
"Regierung-, Bundes" wouldnt as it is split and reversed for lexical reasons
to appear among "R" in the index).

With hiddenLabel it would then look like:

<skos:Concept>
 <skos:prefLabel>Bundesregierung</skos:prefLabel>
 <skos:hiddenLabel>Regierung, Bundes-</skos:hiddenLabel>
</skos:Concept>

I am a little bit unsure why you wrote...

> The "next to market" solution for more 
> general notion linking could well be 
> the application of SKOS terms in the 
> metadata structures

...about using it in the metadata structure? My intend is, to indicate it in
the text flow, naemely in inline elements such as <p> or <td>. Example: 

<html>...<body>
<p>
Die <skos:Concept> <skos:prefLabel>Bundesregierung</skos:prefLabel>
<skos:hiddenLabel>Regierung, Bundes-</skos:hiddenLabel> </skos:Concept>
beabsichtigt, heute eine Stellungnahme zu dieser Frage abzugeben.
</p>
</body></html>

rendered as: 
Die Bundesregierung beabsichtigt, heute eine Stellungnahme zu dieser Frage
abzugeben.

and indexed as:
- Bundesregierung      (among "B") 
- Regierung, Bundes-       (among "R")  

Apart from that I usually edit the source code and I would still prefer it a
MUCH shorter way then mentioned above (both, the marking and the content,
which even doubles above!), I am not sure if it matches what was intended by
the SKOS working group and whether it would get processed as intented by me
in a future standard HTML browser. Mainly I am concerned about the
surpression of "Regierung-, Bundes" in the rendering.

Or is the whole SKOS-as-metadata-in-XHTML2 thought the following way:

<p>
Die
<meta property="skos:Concept">
 <meta property="skos:prefLabel">Bundesregierung</meta>
 <meta property="skos:hiddenLabel" content="Regierung, Bundes-"/>
</meta> 
beabsichtigt, heute eine Stellungnahme zu dieser Frage abzugeben.
</p>

Could I skip out the enclosing meta-Concept-Tag with same results???

Further I am sorry, I could not find solutions for my desire with the other
both mentioned resources (WAI Conecpt Linking and or SSML 'phoneme').

Apart from being interested in which of the mentioned SKOS ways above
(altLabel or hiddenLabel?) would be right and whether it might get
implemented in XHTML2 document bodies instead of the metadata e.g. in the
header, I would like to suggest to join 

Orion Adrian 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2005Aug/0010.html

and 

Thomas Hedden
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2005Jan/0004.html 

in requesting a keyword-tag for XHTML2.

Is their any reason against it? Even after long search and reading through
discussions in this forum that can be found when searching for "keyword"
brought no fundamental reason to me?

Will it get into the next XHTML2-draft? 

Considering the compound breaking the follwing problems are left:

Recently there were discussions under this topic (tag for notion and
compound indication) whether indication of compound parts should be left to
the text e.g. using Unicode or whether it is an issue for marking,
especially XHTML2-MarkUp?

There are potential problems with doing it my Unicode and the question
occurs which character to be the right one : 

federal&nbsp;government

which is intended to render as 
federal government 

and to be listed in the index among
F like federal government 
G like government, federal 

would work like <nobr>federal government</nobr> and might therefore corrupt
the presentation, as &nbsp; has got a presentaitional meaning.

Similar discussion occured around the zero width word joiner character
&#2060; whether to be appropriate or even the opposite of appropriate for
compund indication like in: Bundes&#2060;regierung

I would like the last one but it is still rendered wrongly on my machine,
supposely due to lack of Unicode set, or? But how is the rendering beahviour
nerby the end of lines? Will it break? It should not, apart from an optional
discussions whether to implement a technology in HTML to provide compound
breaking at line ends in the meaning of syllables indication. 

Or should theese both topics regarded as one: limited notion-depending
compound breaking for the indexing purpose + syllable-based grammatical
compound breaking for presentational reasons ~ line ends???

At least for the indexing purpose the solution above could fulfill the needs
for the first case mentioned above as well, but only with a surrounding
keyword tag to indicate start and end:

<k>federal &#2060;government</k>

This would also help for those cases where a blank space is not qualified b
ythe notion to act as a compound divertor, such as the 2nd white space is in
"Financial Services Authority" as long as you want to avoid "Services
Authority, Finanial" to occur in the index. 

<k>Financial Services &#2060;Authority</k>

resulting in the index entries
- Financial Services Authority 
- Authority, Financial Services 

What do you think about this idea, derrived from all the discussions? Is it
a missuse of the &#2060; Unicode character? 

The way <k> could further work through nesting might be: 

<k><k>Financial Services</k>&#2060;Authority</k>

resulting in index enries 
- Financial Services 
- Financial Services Authority 
- Authority, Financial Services 

Thanks in advance for your further contribution in the means of comments
knowledge!

Yours sincerely,
Benjamin Hartung, 
Dresden, Germany 
Received on Tuesday, 9 August 2005 11:37:42 GMT

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