W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > May 2003

Re: italics

From: Jens Meiert <jens.meiert@erde3.com>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:13:26 +0200 (MEST)
To: John Lewis <lewi0371@mrs.umn.edu>, www-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <1636.1053587606@www52.gmx.net>

If you introduce a sentence element, I will cancel all Markup related
activity ;)

I don't feel the need to explain this, for me <sentence /> sounds really
stupid (sorry, that's my opinion)... and <word /> comes next!?


 Jens Meiert.



> Brock wrote on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 at 6:24:33 PM:
> 
> > seperation of meaning from presentation is the holy grail
> 
> The existence of a sentence element, which has been discussed here
> before, wouldn't affect the content in such a drastic way.
> 
> Example without a sentence element:
> 
>     <p>Alice had no more breath for talking, so the trotted on in
>     silence, till they came in sight of a great crowd, in the middle
>     of which the Lion and Unicorn were fighting. They were in such a
>     cloud of dust, that at first Alice could not make out which was
>     which: but she soon managed to distinguish the Unicorn by his
>     horn.</p>
> 
> Example with a sentence element:
> 
>     <p><sentence>Alice had no more breath for talking, so the trotted
>     on in silence, till they came in sight of a great crowd, in the
>     middle of which the Lion and Unicorn were fighting.</sentence>
>     <sentence>They were in such a cloud of dust, that at first Alice
>     could not make out which was which: but she soon managed to
>     distinguish the Unicorn by his horn.</sentence></p>
> 
> For example, you could delete the space between sentences and replace
> it with padding, but you would be incorrect to do so. Without a
> particular style sheet, your content becomes:
> 
>     Alice had no more breath for talking, so the trotted on in
>     silence, till they came in sight of a great crowd, in the middle
>     of which the Lion and Unicorn were fighting.They were in such a
>     cloud of dust, that at first Alice could not make out which was
>     which: but she soon managed to distinguish the Unicorn by his
>     horn.
> 
> Which is obviously incorrect. I think suggesting such a style as
> default, for a theoretical sentence element, would be seriously
> misguided. Yet it's probably less radical than your suggestion, which
> makes even less sense.
> 
> The purpose of XHTML isn't to replace content with markup, purely for
> the sake of markup. The source is supposed to be human readable, for
> one. Obviously some replacement happens, but not without reason. For
> example, take the ol element. Something like this:
> 
>     <ol>
>     <li>Stir</li>
>     <li>Beat</li>
>     </ol>
> 
> Will probably look like this:
> 
>     1. Stir
>     2. Beat
> 
> But could look like this, without a loss of meaning:
> 
>     A. Stir
>     B. Beat
> 
> If that would appear in plain text, the numbering system would need to
> be embedded, something some consider a bad thing (e.g., with embedded
> list markers you need to alter them by hand in order to change deeply
> nested lists around). However, some people desire a marker element for
> that very purpose (citing legal text as one example where it's
> needed):
> 
>     <ol>
>     <li><m>1.</m> Stir</li>
>     <li><m>2.</m> Beat</li>
>     </ol>
> 
> I don't have much of an opinion on that. Usually the marker isn't
> important to me; although Etan Wexler made a good argument for it
> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2003Feb/0093.html> on
> this list:
> 
>     The typical argument for the 'value' attribute states that the
>     list numbering is an essential part of the content and is not
>     merely style. If we accept this argument, it follows that we want
>     an element type dedicated to list item markers, bringing all the
>     usual benefits (easy styling, ability to add metadata,
>     internationalization, better degradation to plain text).
>     
> I don't know what to tell you, if you truly believe italic text is
> essential to the meaning of your documents. Maybe you should give HTML
> 3.2 <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32.html> a whirl.
> 
> -- 
> John Lewis
> 


-- 
Jens Meiert

Steubenstr. 28
D-26123 Oldenburg

Telefon +49 (0)441 99 86 147
Telefax +49 (0)89 1488 2325 91
Mobil +49 (0)175 78 4146 5

eMail <jens@meiert.com>
Internet <http://meiert.com>
Received on Thursday, 22 May 2003 03:13:35 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 27 March 2012 18:15:55 GMT