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RE: proposal for HTML4.01 amendment: <HR PAGEBREAK="before">

From: Christian Wolfgang Hujer <Christian.Hujer@itcqis.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:03:19 +0100
To: "Philip Brown" <phil@bolthole.com>, <www-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c19b7a$453c9c40$852750d9@andromedacwh>
Hello,

> -----Original Message-----
> Howdy :-)
>
> > ..
> > > I say yes[pagebreaks are useful for non-print media], because
> the "page"
> > > metaphore extends beyond simply the printed
> > > page: it is useful for the concept of a browser "window" also.
> >
> > I do not want to agree on that.
> > The page metaphore already exists for a browser window and is simply
> > represented by a HTML file.
>
> Here's where I disagree with YOUR premise :-)
> I think you are saying
> 'there is already an entity called an HTML/web "page", which does not
>  match up to your terms...'
>
> The trouble is... whoever first called it a "page" was an idiot!
Hmmm... I don't know wether I shall or shall not agree on the term "idiot"
at this point, beware, it might have been the mighty Tim Berners Lee himself
who introduced the term "page" in that context.
But at least there are a couple of "idiot"s out there trying to
overemphasize the term "page" to introduce print layouts on screen devices /
the web by trying to control the layout of every single pixel on the screen,
resulting in poor layouts for poor contents with 600 pixels width.

> A page is something of fixed physical size, that contains all or part of
> a written work.
> The clear analogy for that in the electronic realm is a "window".
> A web "page" should simply be called a web "doc" or something.
At the moment I can agree on that. I don't know any arguments against that.

> That being said, I recognize popular usage,and if your main objection is
> the name, I'm happy to hear alternate names for the attribute :-)
> <hr framediv=here> ?
>
> BTW: I dont see your comment about hr not being in XHTML-BASIC as
> relevant.
> XHTML-BASIC is designed for things like CELLPHONES! WIth a screen that
> tiny, you can barely do much more than simple H# tags :-/
No.

From http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/:
"It is designed for Web clients that do not support the full set of XHTML
features; for example, Web clients such as mobile phones, PDAs, pagers, and
settop boxes."
It is *also* designed for things like cellphones. But screens of PDAs are
not that small, and a settop box can be attached to a cinema projector.
That's *not* what I call a "tiny screen" ;)

The layout power of a HTML document (I already try avoid the term "page" in
that context :) does not come from the richness of different markup
elements. If comes from the logical structure combined with an intelligent
style sheet.

And XHTML Basic combined with CSS Level 2 stylesheets delivers first class
layout content.


But no matter how we would call the markup:
Structuring a document in sections or chapters is the task of the <div />
element.
Layouting such sections or chapters is the task of style sheets.

And creating a screen- or page break is a layout and therefore a stylesheet
task.


Greetings

Christian
Received on Saturday, 12 January 2002 10:07:49 GMT

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