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Re: ? what to do ?

From: Robert Koberg <rob@koberg.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:11:16 -0800
Message-ID: <16f601c1985f$1ab9bde0$6501a8c0@TILLER>
To: "Christian Wolfgang Hujer" <Christian.Hujer@itcqis.com>, <www-html@w3.org>
Thanks for taking the time to respond!

>From: "Christian Wolfgang Hujer" <Christian.Hujer@itcqis.com>

> But the point is that:
> 1. Forms are not the task of HTML anymore. They are the task of XForms.
Why
> should only HTML contain forms, but not XSL:FO, SVG, SMIL, MathML,
DocBook?
> So XForms will be the pluggable language to add forms to content.

I am not saying they shouldn't. Maybe what I am talking about shouldn't be
considered a form.

>
> 2. Content-Editable as an attribute is not a good idea. The task of HTML
is
> to form a structural basis for hypertext. Layout properties are the task
of
> style sheets like CSS.

How does contentEditable affect the layout? The point of it is NOT to affect
the layout.


>
> What you desire can already be done using DOM in many browsers, though not
> as comfortable as in IE5.0+.

I don't see how this is possible in any browser other than IE5.5+

> But simply adding content-editable as a CSS property won't solve the
> problem. How does one tell that marked text shall be marked-up using
> <strong/>? So there's the requirement for DOM anyway.
>
good point. it would make the markup a mess. I am back to believing it
should be an attribute.


> I suggest that you write a detailed example of what you desire with an
> indepth documentation containing a deep explanation (like that's the
form...
> these are the possibilities the user shall have... that's a possible
> result...), especially stating that current forms have a fixed structure
> like a record in a relational database and that you desire forms having a
> dynamic structure, forms, that evolve on the client depending on the
user's
> actions.

I will do this. I have some spare time between Macworld sessions :) Is there
some information on how you guys like to see this examples like this? I am
basically a hack and need all the help I can get with my communications.

>
> I think it's not so much the point that you want editable HTML pages.
That's
> just one idea how to use that feature. Another idea would be a HTML form
for
> editing DocBook or MathML.

Yes, exactly. I use XSLT to transform a docbook-like (basically a mix of
docbook and XHTML) XML structure to my specific HTML layout. I let the user
edit the page similar to how they would work in MSWord.  Since the HTML is
well-known to me I can 'round-trip' it back to XML for storage on a server.
The XML can then be transformed to the clients prorietary markup (pure
docbook perhaps) or used as is.

> The XForm usually is given a Schema describing the result of the form.
XForm
> user agents could use that Schema to allow the user to construct any
> structure that follows that Schema. If the user agent knows the name space
> of the Schema, it could do WYSIWYG, if possible, otherwise it should
display
> structural markup.
> Is that an idea?

I can't accept using forms to enter article content.

best,
-Rob
Received on Tuesday, 8 January 2002 11:14:24 GMT

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