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RE: advanced frame question?

From: Dave J Woolley <DJW@bts.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:41:35 +0100
Message-ID: <81E4A2BC03CED111845100104B62AFB58249D9@stagecoach.bts.co.uk>
To: "'www-html@w3.org'" <www-html@w3.org>
> From:	griffin granberg [SMTP:kuito@kuitoweb.com]
> I have used the validator on the page and
> came across border="0" will not work with
> frame, frameset.. it does work with IE[damn
> microsoft].. but for w3c standards i have 
	[DJW:]  Interestingly I just noticed this whilst
	trying to convert someone's site to (valid)
	HTML.  It appears that no browser up to IE
	5.01 and NS 4.x, at least, correctly implements
	HTML 4 Transitional Frames.  I haven't tried
	Mozilla yet, and NS 6 won't install because of a
	an installer fault (wrongly calculates disk space

	Unfortunately, the rendering model for frames
	isn't clearly explained and I get the impression
	that marginwidth and height should really be called
	padding... for consistency with the CSS model.  I suspect
	that the border controlled by border= is actually 
	margin in CSS terms.

	The HTML spec does need a rendering model as frameborder
	and margin* are to do with rendering.  I think there
	are rumours of Frames being put back into XHTML as
	a module, in which case it would be a good idea to
	clarify the model.

	I suspect, as frames have never been part of the
	reccommended part of the standard, no-one bothered
	to define their semantics tightly.

	I assume the intention was that frameborder=0 would 
	suppress the effect you are seeing.  (Incidentally,
	the suggestion of using frameborder=NO introduces 
	an unnecessary standards violation.  Also, frameborder
	must be on frame, not frameset - I've only tried border
	on frameset.)

	In terms of validation, I cannot find a DTD that 
	correctly represents IE's behaviour in this respect.
	The Wilbur derived IE30 DTD dosen't include border=,
	even though I suspect that IE30 actually supports it.
	(I'm trying to fix someone else's HTML without making
	significnat changes to its real behaviour.)
Received on Tuesday, 19 September 2000 09:35:57 UTC

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