Re: Valid Editors; Frames DTD

William F. Hammond (
Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:14:51 -0400 (EDT)

From: "William F. Hammond" <>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:14:51 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <>
Subject: Re: Valid Editors; Frames DTD
Cc: kindly provides us with a DTD fragment to encompass

:   Here are some relevant fragments:
:   <!ENTITY % html.content "HEAD, (BODY | FRAMESET)">
:   <!ELEMENT FRAMESET - -  (noframes?, (frame|frameset)+)
:   . . . [text deleted] . . .
:   <!ELEMENT NOFRAMES - - %body.content;   -- alternate representation -->

I am not fluent in SGML markup, but it appears to me that this
leaves no room for BODY tags inside the NOFRAME section.

A browser that does not do frames presumably sees only what is in
the HEAD and NOFRAME sections.

In other words, I have not been able to find docs on this at W3C.

The docs that I have seen appear to call for:

<head> ... </head>
<framset> {frame-stuff-inside-tags} </frameset>
<noframe> {body-stuff} </noframe>

My reading of this SGML fragment is consistent with the docs that I
have seen.  They are very clear that there should be no (open or
close) body tags inside a frame.

But what those docs call a "frame-challenged" browser is then going
to see only

<head> ... </head>

Shouldn't it be  <noframe><body> {body-stuff} </body></noframe> ?
(Otherwise how can I set the value of "bgcolor"?   ;-)  )

Am I missing something here?

                                   -- Bill