(no subject)

Chris Serflek (t-chrise@microsoft.com)
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 17:42:34 -0700


Message-Id: <c=US%a=_%p=msft%l=RED-22-MSG-960702004234Z-22357@tide19.microsoft.com>
From: Chris Serflek <t-chrise@microsoft.com>
To: "'raman@mv.us.adobe.com'" <raman@mv.us.adobe.com>
Cc: Thomas Reardon <thomasre@microsoft.com>,
Subject: RE: 
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 17:42:34 -0700

Actually I was attempting to avoid a marketing pitch of access features
by being brief.  You do have good questions that need answers.  There
will be more specifics (including a White Paper) available with the next
Internet Explorer release at http://www.microsoft.com/ie/ and
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/enable

We have also set up a newsgroup for Internet Explorer access issues on
the Microsoft new server:  msnews.  The group is
microsoft.public.accessibility.ieaccess

Other access related Microsoft newsgroups are
microsoft.public.accessibility.issues and
microsoft.public.accessibility.axa

Thanks for keeping us on our toes,

Chris Serflek
Microsoft Corp.

>----------
>From: 	raman@mv.us.adobe.com[SMTP:raman@mv.us.adobe.com]
>Sent: 	Monday, July 01, 1996 1:42 PM
>To: 	Chris Serflek
>Cc: 	Thomas Reardon; 'raman@mv.us.adobe.com'; 'www-style@w3.org';
>'html-erb@w3.org'; 'www-html@w3.org'
>
>raman
>Subject: RE: Introducing NetscapeML
>In-Reply-To:
><c=US%a=_%p=msft%l=RED-22-MSG-960701185853Z-20988@tide21.microsoft.com>
>References:
><c=US%a=_%p=msft%l=RED-22-MSG-960701185853Z-20988@tide21.microsoft.com>
>Reply-To: raman@adobe.com
>From: "T. V. Raman" <raman@adobe.com>
>X-Phone: 1 (415) 962-3945
>X-Fax: 1(415) 962-6063
>
>Chris Serflek writes:
> > 
> > We have been actively working with this particular speech access
>company
> > to resolve this problem.  We have been informed that it is a problem
> > with their software and their is nothing we can modify on our end to
> > help.  We are continuing to provide assistance for resolving their
> > problem.   Other screen readers are working with Internet Explorer.
>
>Can't personally  comment on how other screen-readers are working, but
>all of
>  the screen-readers out there for Win/Win95 are so broken that I'd
>  personally not bother chasing another screen-reader just to use IE.
>In the world of plug and play (err pray) it takes about 10-15 hours to
>get any
>  of these screen-readers set up right and running--
>
> > With the feedback we have received from the Beta 1 release, they
>will
> > work even better.
>That's good to hear, but left to be seen
>
> > 
> > We are working hard to make Internet Explorer a very accessible
>product.
>This is good to hear --and is what caused me to download your first
>Beta--
>  guess MicroSoft's desire to  win increase IE acceptance does have
>some
>  positive effects:-) (It would have been unimaginable a year or so ago
>to
>  expect something like IE to be accessible to the blind --let alone
>have
>  such a feature be a major marketing point) Note: I'm not complaining
>--I
> > think this is a good thing--
>
> >  Consider the following features that will available in the final
> > version (most will be in Beta 2):
>Guess you listed them in the order most visible/available first--
>(with some additional fluff at the end to serve as filling --)
> > 
> > * Move quickly through hyperlinks, imagemaps, images with
>hyperlinks,
> > frames, and forms via the TAB key
>This is goodness --if it works properly--
> > * Quickly move the focus between frames using CTRL+TAB
>ditto 
> > * Support for future access products by incorporating Microsoft's
> > ActiveX Accessibility
>Haven't seen any of the access vendors adopt CaptiveX (err ActiveX)
>though
>  when they do it will be a good thing-- but to be fair the developers
>of
>  screen access programs are still trying hard to get a working product
>based
>  on their several years of drudgery under Win31
>
> > * Enhanced support for existing access products
>Sounds like a marketing line --does this point include anything that is
>not
>covered by the first three items?
>
> > * Proper display of ALT text and STANDBY text for speech access
>programs
>Makes something straightforward sound like rocket science:-)
> > * Supporting high contrast mode for low vision users
>A good thing and a simple thing that often  goes ignored--
>and anyway, given this entire thread started with CSS, would the above
>not be
>just a user-specific personal style sheet?
>
> > * Other keyboard shortcuts.
>What "other" keyboard short-cuts-- sounds like this point too is just
>unnecessary filling/fluff--
>
> > 
> > I don't think that there is any need to curtail your enthusiasm for
> > Internet Explorer.  We are living up to our announcement of make an
> > increasingly accessible WWW browser.  When a patch becomes available
>for
> > your software, I hope you will give Internet Explorer another
>chance.
>The operational word in the above paragraph is "increasingly" --a
>qualifier 
>  conspicuously missing from the original announcement--
>
>I'll give it a chance when I see it working effectively --e.g. when I
>here
>  positive things about it from other users who are using it in a
>real-life
>  environment-- to date all I have seen are statements from specific
>vendors
>  on how their particular screen-readers  work with  IE--
>I'd be equally sceptical about such announcements as I would be about
>any
>  marketing hype--
> > 
> > Thanks,
> >
>Keep up the good work--
> > Chris Serflek
> > Microsoft Corp.
> > 
> > >----------
> > >From: 	T. V. Raman[SMTP:raman@adobe.com]
> > >Sent: 	Sunday, June 30, 1996 8:25 PM
> > >To: 	Ka-Ping Yee
> > >Cc: 	Thomas Reardon; Walter Ian Kaye; www-style@w3.org;
> > >html-erb@w3.org; www-html@w3.org; raman@mv.us.adobe.com
> > >Subject: 	Re: Introducing NetscapeML
> > >
> > >Ka-Ping is right --in the world of free browsers users can *demand*
> > >not plead.
> > >
> > >To cite an example, I'm blind and use a talking computer. A couple
>of
> > >months ago, I was (temporarily) thrilled to see an announcement
>coming
> > >out of MicroSoft saying that their new browser would be accessible
>to
> > >blind users using screen-access programs --the almost total
> > >inaccessibility of NetScape has been a serious problem.
> > >
> > >However my short-lived enthusiasm for MSFT was *very* short-lived
> > >--after downloading their beta release that the announcement
>claimed
> > >worked with speech access programs I was disappointed to see that
>the
> > >Win95 screen access program I have (which is incidentally still
>Beta
> > >after almost a year since win95 shipped)
> > >could see even less of the IE screen than it could of the Netscape
> > >screen. So simple choice --I went  tback to using William Perry's
> > >excellent  W3 browser (though I know many scoff at an emacs based
> > >browser)
> > >
> > >The point I'd like to make is that there is a war out there to
> > >convince all of us about what browser we should be using, and I'd
>be
> > >very sceptical in the future about anyone's announcements.
> > >
> > >-- 
> > >Best Regards,
> > >--raman
> > >
> > >      Adobe Systems                 Tel: 1 (415) 962 3945   (B-1
>115)
> > >      Advanced Technology Group     Fax: 1 (415) 962 6063 
> > >      (E 1-160) 1585 Charleston Road       Email: raman@adobe.com 
> > >      Mountain View, CA 94039 -7900  raman@cs.cornell.edu
> > >      http://www-atg/People/Raman.html (Internal To Adobe)
> > >      http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/People/raman/raman.html 
>(Cornell)
> > >Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own and in no way should
>be
> > >taken
> > >            as representative of my employer, Adobe Systems Inc.
> >
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>_
> > >____
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>-- 
>Best Regards,
>--raman
>
>      Adobe Systems                 Tel: 1 (415) 962 3945   (B-1 115)
>      Advanced Technology Group     Fax: 1 (415) 962 6063 
>      (E 1-160) 1585 Charleston Road       Email: raman@adobe.com 
>      Mountain View, CA 94039 -7900  raman@cs.cornell.edu
>      http://www-atg/People/Raman.html (Internal To Adobe)
>      http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/People/raman/raman.html  (Cornell)
>Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own and in no way should be
>taken
>            as representative of my employer, Adobe Systems Inc.
>________________________________________________________________________
>____
>