Yet more discussion over the characteristics of the DIV tag and other related things, without forget

Heikki Vesalainen (
Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:52:22 -0700

Date: 15 Apr 1996 18:28:22 -0700
From: "Jason T Vincent" <>
To: "" <> (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: What should I use for centering (DIV or P)


Sheesh you guys, take it easy.   

we all know that both presentation and good structure are important.
All I know is that a page with a java applet sure does grab my attention, 
however it dose no good if I'm trying to demonstrate VRML.

This kind of bashing of personalities belongs in a user group called
alt.bashing.we.don' not where things are emailed to personal addresses.

I think the question was answered... let's move on and talk some serious html.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: What should I use for centering (DIV or P)
Author: at Internet
Date:    4/15/96 5:39 PM

You, Walter Ian Kaye wrote:
++ At 6:40p 04/15/96, Paul Prescod wrote:
++ >At 03:19 PM 4/15/96 -0700, Walter Ian Kaye wrote: 
++ >>At 11:29p 04/15/96, Abigail wrote:
++ >>>The logical markup of the document is far more important than the layout 
++ >>>hints. The attributes go with the elements; one doesn't use elements
++ >>>for the attributes.
++ >>
++ >>Ok Abigail, please tell us exactly how you use div. What structural purpose
++ >>does it serve, and why do you consider it unrelated to layout? You sound
++ >>like you are trying to enforce the letter of the law without caring about 
++ >>anything else...
++ >
++ >   "The DIV element is used with the CLASS attribute to represent
++ >   different kinds of containers, e.g. chapter, section, abstract, or 
++ >   appendix."
++ >
++ >   ...
++ >
++ >   "The content model for DIV allows headers, lists, paragraphs
++ >   as well as other DIV elements etc. This allows DIVs to be nested, to 
++ >   form hierarchies of chapters, sections, and subsections etc."
++ >
++ Yeah, but who's to say that Heikki's usage won't be in a "section" or 
++ "abstract"?
That's why I said to FIRST logical markup the document. If you use 
<div>s, align the <div>s. If you don't use them, don't introduce 
them just for layout purposes, but center the other elements you 
have. <h?>, <p>, <table>, <fig>, etc.
++             To me, any consecutive series of related elements can be
++ considered a "section", and just because Heikki hadn't originally planned 
++ to use div for structural purposes does not in itself invalidate its usage 
++ for centering -- in fact, it could be that the document would benefit from 
++ div, yet it was the thought of layout which brought it to mind! Not
++ everyone's left and right brains are so disconnected as Abigail's -- to
++ many of us, structure and layout (left and right brain) are intimately tied 
++ to each other and *equally* important.
Maybe, but by choosing HTML as the way to deliver your message, you 
already have choosen for structure first, and just layout *hints*.
++                                        If Abigail thinks her right brain is 
++ less important than her left brain, well... I'm not qualified to comment on 
++ that.
My right brain is more important than your right brain.
++       All I know is that God gave us an equal portion of each, therefore 
++ document presentation is equally important to document structure.
All I know is that there are no gods.
++                                                                   Not less 
++ important; equally important. I'm sick and tired of presentation being
++ treated as a second-class citizen. :/
I find that a very odd concept. To me, it is far more important to 
be heard, than the way I sound. I rather have my message not aligned 
the way I want but understandable, than aligned the way I want, but 
Oh well, maybe I am odd.
Message-Id: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:52:22 -0700
From: Heikki Vesalainen <>
To: The W3 HTML group <>
Subject: Yet more discussion over the characteristics of the DIV tag and other related things, without forgetting the P.


Someone mentioned that DIV wouldn't insert whitespace (in netscape).  That is not 
true, as atleast my netscape (2.01 for win 3.11) inserts a small gap where DIVs are 



is equal to 


Heikki Vesalainen